Psychology Of Chinese Social Issues - Scholarly Study

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Blitzo

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Recently I posted things sourcing from them because they're probably the only source I can think of which is more objective and covers stories regardless of good/bad and also in English. Ming Pao is also pretty good but they don't have English version.
For me, half a reason I bring these stories out is to raise some awareness as some of these stories could have bigger implications to neglected societal issues, such as the question of accessibility of mental health services. Some stories are isolated incidents with backgrounds that can be concluded to be more attributed to unfortunate series of random events that built the outburst(kinda like this incident of happened to have an old grenade lying around), while some carried repeated patterns which perhaps deserve a second consideration of whether they are relevant somehow. For example it will be ignorant for anyone to assume Chinese carries grenades around to throw at people whenever they are upset, but stories of tremendously deviant and anti-social behaviors regardless of environment.. would a question that should be brought forth be, whether these perpetrators who committed these deviant antisocial acts could've been stopped or given the help they would've actually need? It doesn't do the society any good to shrug them off as it was a common pattern towards shooting incidents in the US. For example the cases of random murderous rampage of stabbing schoolchildren etc, are examples I have in mind, or repeated incidents onboard flights. Could something be said of these? And even for the vet who had this grenade.. aside from sneaking out a grenade is a serious offense, could questions that should be asked be, was there previous behavioural or antisocial issues or history related to this man? etc. So yea, my hopes for this thread is to raise questions and get people to think, rather than brush everything underneath the rug.

As for the contents I posted, I do hope other members can contribute too with stuffs they want, as I did leave the thread title open for others to post what they want too. What I genuinely hope to look for is a good discussion.

But thanks Blitz. You actually voiced exactly what's on my mind.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think it is worth keeping in mind these issues , and they should never be swept under the rug.

However it does make me a bit uncomfortable that such a thread exists with this name, which basically exists to talk about the issues facing chinese society (which are definitely many! But imagine a thread called USA Discussion Thread that only posts news about US shootings, murders, imprisonments, abusive cops, etc).

As for your more specific question regarding mental health, that is obviously an area China needs to work on -- but then again China's entire health system is quite a mess. I think these kind of things are probably going to get worse for a little while before it gets better, dependent on variables from education, the health system, cultural attitudes to things like mental illness, and of course, the state of the country's economy (although I will say that the problems have probably always existed, but modern communication and transportation just makes it easier for us to learn about them). Trying to find an answer to these kind of social ills you list is a virtually impossible task if one wants to do it right. We can still try, but I think it'll be quite a futile effort. I don't think there is any kind of China specific answer out there, rather it is just a combination of general attributes common to many different states through different periods in history that have created the present situation for China.
At the very least, maybe see if it's possible to change the thread title to something more reflective of the thread's content.
 
It's not that the subject matter isn't interesting, but I feel like most of the posts so far has been a "things about Chinese people/society which irritate us" kind of deal... If you want to talk about it, then great, but at least re title the thread to something more specific instead of "Chinese Discussion thread".

As for the Paris attack versus Kunming, we may as well ask why Nigeria isn't getting one after 2000 people were killed by Boko Haram, or why some acts by particular countries are seen as good while others seen as evil despite being both having committed it in a similar scale. It's just social psychology, socialization, culture, and your typical in group/out group interactions.


Personally I'm beyond the point of thinking there should be a moral and fair way in which different countries and individuals are treated, viewed and interacted with. Hypocrisy exists and it's never going to disappear

I agree with you. As per your Boko Haram example, I'd cite what Lt. General Romeo Dallaire said when he addressed the Rwandans; he essentially said because the Rwandans are Black and the West don't care about Blacks or Africa, therefore they are forsaken. (Also the focus which went to Bosnia) He recognized and addressed the prevalence of privilege and oppression that's also in play in the IR stage, and like you've said of psychological devices, they are also in play. I guess for me though, this is why I wanted to see how whether PR manipulation could be used as a ploy in IR stage, but also want to examine Chinese trends critically. My beliefs is that the mass is very fallible to the constructs and dominant values of their cultures, therefore to examine issues properly, it's important to properly observe and apply the fair, deserving weights of accountability for both cultural influences and personal responsibilities that affect a person/group in their actions. After addressing both critically to determine how trends, thinkings could be changed or improved or extincted or to remain, the next stage is to develop greater understanding and awareness for asymmetry in intergroup relations. And from this phase on, the oppressed group should stand up against the unjust treatment but also the same time seek understanding, changes, and reconciliation. Only this way can groups move forward. One way to see it is of course the Black movement and Feminist movements. They all do take very lengthy time, but absolutely necessary and essential if we want to improve the lives and upbringing of people if not to talk so holy as to speak for the greatness of humanity. And imo, this is necessary if we are sick/want to see the end of the ugliness of human nature such as ignorance and hatred being inflicted on one another as well as the suffering of groups, whether you're ingroup or just simply being empathetic. Finally, the importance of starting with critical studies of one's own culture, in this case China's, is to prevent ongoing issues to manifest, deteriorate. An ongoing attitude of perceiving oneself as the victim of previous abuses and trauma without critically studying one's own roles and responsibilities can create a cycle of train of thought that encourage/deepens self-pity and greater hostility, ego/ethnocentricism and alienation with outsiders, which can in turn manifest into future anti-social behaviours and prejudice if kept unchecked and left to deteriorate. This is not to mention that there always is the possibility of small prevalent issues becoming the seeds to future mass tragedies or other similar forms of atrocities, hostilities, etc., that we have seen all too often in the course of human history.

And yes I also agree that sadly prejudice, stereotyping, discrimination (ABCs..affect, behavior, cognitive) will always be in place and to stay. They are innate psychological responses and devices to help us learn and associate, but also fallible. This of course, is often coupled with misguided assumptions of others.
 
Don't get me wrong, I definitely think it is worth keeping in mind these issues , and they should never be swept under the rug.

However it does make me a bit uncomfortable that such a thread exists with this name, which basically exists to talk about the issues facing chinese society (which are definitely many! But imagine a thread called USA Discussion Thread that only posts news about US shootings, murders, imprisonments, abusive cops, etc).

As for your more specific question regarding mental health, that is obviously an area China needs to work on -- but then again China's entire health system is quite a mess. I think these kind of things are probably going to get worse for a little while before it gets better, dependent on variables from education, the health system, cultural attitudes to things like mental illness, and of course, the state of the country's economy (although I will say that the problems have probably always existed, but modern communication and transportation just makes it easier for us to learn about them). Trying to find an answer to these kind of social ills you list is a virtually impossible task if one wants to do it right. We can still try, but I think it'll be quite a futile effort. I don't think there is any kind of China specific answer out there, rather it is just a combination of general attributes common to many different states through different periods in history that have created the present situation for China.
At the very least, maybe see if it's possible to change the thread title to something more reflective of the thread's content.
No worries I totally understand what you mean, and actually appreciate a lot you're also engaged in this discussion too. Personally I think that the lack of mental health services is a global thing. I am not naive enough to think sufficient mental health means this world become a happy-go-lucky place, but I do believe can do a lot for this world today.

And funny enough this is why I read RT sometimes. I know they're biased for Russian perspectives, but the stories they covered of stories in America sometimes to help get us think/see some underreported events or trends that could be happening.

What will you suggest for title?
And I agree with you that the constructs of modern Chinese society again, has a lot to do with the historic past and cultures and beliefs that's been around for like, forever.
 

solarz

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great. another one.
WTF are people thinking?

Honestly, this one I can sympathize with the passengers. Their flight gets delayed for more than 7 hours, and they get nothing but horrendous customer service treatment from the air crew, who had lied to them to get them to board the plane only to sit there for two hours for no apparent reason, in a plane that had no ventilation, to boot!
 

solarz

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wtf is this shit. i don't get it, don't they think of the people around them who are innocent? is there like a lack of effective mental health services for people who needs it in china? the amount of anti-social behavioural trend is staggering.

LOL, the funny part is his defence arguing for leniency because it was his "first offence".

Mental health support in China is pretty much abysmal. The onus is almost entirely on the family.
 

Jeff Head

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Guys, we have a Chinese News thread. We have a Chinese Daily photo thread, we have Chinese threads on about every ship, aircraft, armor vehicle, etc. existing.

We have threads on "What the Heck News". We have a World Breaking News thread.

This thread is far too general in nature in its name, and it has morphed into discussing pretty much what are deemed to be social problems in China.

If you want to make it a scholarly psychology thread about such ills...that is fine, but then it needs to include links to sourced, scholarly information about the same. As it is, it is pretty much members posting their considered opinions and dialog about such things and it can easily be taken wrong by Chinese members, and it certainly can easily veer into speculation and bias.

If there is breaking news, post it in the breaking news thread.

For this thread, I am changing the name to:

"Psychology of Chinese Social Issues - Scholarly Study"

Further discussion needs to include and be based upon verifiable, and respectable study in the field.
 
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Good news! This means common sense is finally starting to prevail over bureaucracy!
Funny enough though, NYPD had been under similar quotas to demonstrate job performances and the officers are actually naive enough to think that makes a safer neighborhood. The only thing happened after they stopped quota-chasing as a part off their recent job action was actually a happier neighborhood...
 
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I have to say, I am very very impressed with this article. There's a great breakdown of actions, behaviours, values, comparisons, and explicit mentions of psychological processes such as outgroup/ingroup. One of my initial beliefs had to do with the attack on press freedom which the West prides itself for, which led to the great uproar. How the article addressed that reinforced my beliefs and was kinda a great feeling. However I didn't know the French culture enough to realize the value of satirical media(no matter how much we disagree with their contexts this time for cultural inappropriateness). I also liked how the end of the article did make a great point about the West encourages discussions on these matters while the Chinese side seeks for the opposite.

For a very long time I did feel there are some disconnect between the outside culture vs China's domestic. The conventional argument, especially from the Chinese side or sympathizers or critics of Western journalism, would boil everything down to bias, double-standard, discrimination, stereotype, prejudice(if anyone recalls, years ago back around 2008, 2009, I expressed similar anger at Western media hypocrisy). It was a standard argument most of us have taken, but my opinions evolved past that because I felt the explanation was over-simplistic to address the weight of the trend, and so I felt there's more than that and never sealed my conclusion with that belief. Anyways if I recall right in one of my earlier posts in this thread, I did mention the foreign press' skepticism(even dislike/hatred) of Chinese/official accounts and side of the picture(which again might have motivated their greater interests to cover an non-official/underdog side of the argument), hence they don't trust them. But off course a very valid element also involved the an ongoing mistrust(or belief) that any ongoing campaign or events conducted by the authoritarian regime are the continuation of their systematic oppression lined with Chinese-skewed conspiracy. And in this case, I am kind of happy to think/realize the authors of the article echoed a similar sentiment. I checked their credentials and was surprised however, that none off them registered psychology as their discipline. Regardless, the article, I felt, had quite some weight in terms of its balance too.

Anyways, let's assume we use today's argument/analysis to set the frame for the question, "What can we do about it?", then the prospects for a finding a solution become more optimistic and possible. (the previous, conventional beliefs of the West hates China, doesn't leave much room for exploring what we can do about the issue, as the argument rested on a belief/prejudice that the West and China are like water and fire)

  1. First off, if the scenario is constructed as the article described (and seems quite accurate as it is), then to disintegrate the current buildup will be for the CCP loosen the grip on information and press freedom. CCP needs to be able to accept and permit the media run their stories whichever way, whenever they want, regardless if they are pro or against the government or other shades of viewpoints. I don't know if there's foreign press corps having HQs in China, but again like the article had suggested, China still remains a very mysterious place to foreigners due to language and cultural differences and upbringing and values.
  2. This therefore sets my second argument, which is the need for China and the outside to be exposed and open for longer periods of time for some real relationship building. Something like 50 years rather than just 10, 20, and actually being onboard with the international community for a lot of things, will be required before foreigners begin to see the Chinese side of things, as actual in-depth understanding require extended periods of immersion, not like the current relationship where most of the relationships stem from strategic and economical interests. Being quiet or inactive will mean people won't really remember you. This is especially if you have an impression to make.
  3. The Chinese emphasis or ethnocentric/sinocentric views should also be dropped because China needs to remember its real influence in mass culture is minimal. How to appeal to the mass audience is the most important for changing impressions. Some may say China doesn't need to care about what others think, but that's just simply being self-centered and living in its own world.
  4. Let the press write whatever they want. This will show ability to accept ideas, criticisms, and also the fun and weird stuff foreigners and foreign press likes to do(from satirical cartoons to Chinese Alex Jones(which there are plenty) to some other weird stuffs) that may not really exist as much in mainland Chinese culture by default. It doesn't matter whether the government agrees with it. In a way, I start to believe good journalism first comes from the freedom to cover anything.
  5. Privatize CCTV, Xinhua, Global Times, and other state media. No one will report or believe something CCTV and Xinhua had already covered when they both are considered one of the not-trusted sources as they are seen as government mouthpiece. Bringing them down to equal fair playing ground would give further incentives for the foreign press to see this as a fair playing ground and then compete for perspectives or arguments, ideas, interviews.
Other non-Chinese issues include language barrier, education/literacy rates, cultural exchanges, transparency of government, living standards, etc. Those will take time, but if all are done correctly, the genuine interests in covering China will be greater, which will also facilitate greater flow of information.

Finally, a comparison I'll like to make is the Umbrella Revolution. The amount of media coverage received around the world and the global response was/would be something the mainland observers should also critically compare and ask, whether they agree/disagree with what happened. Why HK was able to garner such a huge audience and attention from everyone around the globe? Some may conveniently argue it's Western conspiracy or to take a cheap shot at the CCP, but those are conspiracy responses without any depth.

This is why I am reinforced in my beliefs that CCP is extremely terrible when it comes to PR. It likes to believe it's doing the greater good and it's a good guy(or maybe CCP is deep inside and acting for the best interests), but as long as all your neighbors perceive you as an abusive parent and you act like one, the mistrust naturally continues. And if you remain stuck in your own side of argument and not listening other's perspective and neither do they (because they don't trust abusive parents with past histories of violence), then neither side will ever understand each other. You believe they hate you, while they believe you're a bully, even if both prejudices are only a small portion of truth of the whole picture.

While again it's impossible to dismiss stereotype, prejudice, and what not, I do think incorporating and exploring new explanations are important as we may eventually dig out something useful.

A big comparison I'd finally like to note is compare the amount of depths that Western press has in covering, criticizing US government on everything, anything, for any topic, ranging from abortion to Obama to the medicare to ridiculing something, somebody. It's pretty much press freedoms which permits these depth to occur. If China wants the same level of spotlight, it must be willing to accept this realm of discussion on it. And also social media platforms thus have been greatly underestimated. It is almost one of the best portals for information for often the relays, tweets, shares, posts, are voluntary, many times first-hand, intrinsic in motivation, and genuine. Of course some could be fabricated, but those are generally chain-letters and the only current widespread of hoax through social media that I recall that have the biggest impact will be Kony 2012. That's all I recall for now.

In the future I will expand into looking at Western spheres of influences in terms of culture, which I feel also plays a very important role of coverage by the media.

Another big point I failed to mention which the article did was the prevalence and the effect of social media. Pretty much banning the most popular platforms such as Google, Facebook, Youtube really reduced the outreach of China, which in these instances play against them. It's also attributable to social media which of course saw the proliferation of grassroots civil actions around the globe for not only the Umbrella Movement, but also of course the flow of fighters to Syria.
 
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