Potential PLANAF Carrier Aviation Alternatives

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
I think that PLAN will need a carrier to protect those LHDs.-China's neighbors allready got or building small carriers/LHA types. Varyag will be used for training for the first few years, and then will go on operational deployments.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
I think that PLAN will need a carrier to protect those LHDs.-China's neighbors allready got or building small carriers/LHA types. Varyag will be used for training for the first few years, and then will go on operational deployments.

At this time, the PLAN doesn't have any experience operating carriers and carrier based aircraft. The PRC doesn't have any oversea territory, almost all of its territory, including contested ones, are within shore-based aircraft strike range (i.e. South China Sea).

I do think CV's should be planned for the future, but for now they should slowly build up experience, in both ship building and operational experience. Large LHD's can provide valuable "flat top" construction experience, as well as aircraft (helicopter) handling/storage (below deck hanger) operational experience.

After the speculated petro/gas deposits under spratleys was found to be mostly... speculation, PRC, Vietnam, and others have agreed to put the guns away and chip in $$ for joint resource exploration, and maintaining the status quo in island-LoC. This is a fair situation that can be maintained. If the PLAN were to operate a few large LHD's in the area, it'd serve as a big stick to other "locals" who wants to upset the status quo.

I'd also advocate avoiding conflict over Taiwan. If PRC were to force the unification issue via military means, anyone and everyone who can benefit from a weaker China will be gunning for PLAN assets. If that were to occur, it'd be a duck shoot with PLAN ships sinking. Having one operational carrier isn't going to fend off the USN and its allies.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Update!-
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=264&page=36

I'm not advocating bringing 2nd generation fighters like MIG-23 back to service- but if they are upgraded they could serve as a stop gap measure till PLA gets newer birds. Successful designs mature and last for many decades while being upgraded from time to time. Even the USAF/Navy still uses old C-130s, B-52s, C-135s (based on B-707), EA-6Bs (based on A-6), F-18 A/C (developed over 30 years ago); and until recently F-14s & A-4s (for training). So, China isn't the only nation that uses/produces/upgrades older aircraft designs!
c130-hercules-02.jpg

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

A total of 744 B-52s were built with the last, a B-52H, delivered in October 1962. Only the H model is still in the Air Force inventory and all are assigned to Air Combat Command. The first of 102 B-52H's was delivered to Strategic Air Command in May 1961. The H model can carry up to 20 air launched cruise missiles. In addition, it can carry the conventional cruise missile which was launched from B-52G models during Desert Storm.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Starting in 1989, on-going modifications incorporates the global positioning system, heavy stores adapter beams for carrying 2,000 pound munitions, and a full array of advance weapons currently under development.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

first Hornet flight (160775) 18 November 1978; 11 development aircraft flying by March 1980; delivery of F/A-18A/B (TA designation dropped) to US Navy and Marines began May 1980 and completed 1987; millionth flying hour achieved 10 April 1990; two-millionth on 17 September 1993.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Super Hornet is a growth variant on the F/A-18C/D Hornet. The Super Hornet was ordered from McDonnell Douglas in 1992, first flew in November 1995, made its first carrier landing in 1997 and entered service in 1999. Current versions include the F/A-18E single-seater and F/A-18F two-seater.
Despite the same general layout and systems, there are enough differences from the original F/A-18 Hornet that many judge the Super Hornet to be an essentially new aircraft.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

ea-6b-prowler-01.jpg

kc135.jpg

Initial operational capability in 1973; first flight on 21 December 1970. 79 Tomcats were delivered to Iran before the 1979 Revolution. They are normally grounded for lack of parts; some were seen flying during December 1989 Iranian maneuvers. /QUOTE]
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The A-4 Skyhawk is an attack aircraft originally designed to operate from United States Navy aircraft carriers. Fifty years after the type's first flight, some of the nearly 3,000 Skyhawks produced remain in service with smaller air arms around the world.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=2326
 
Last edited:

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
No matter what, MiG-23 and Yak-141 for Varyag ain't going to happen. The MiG-23 belongs to the J-8II generation and level of performance. Why not just fix up the J-8IIs and these are more maintainable too. Variable wings are problematic in maintenance which is why they're retiring Tomcats.

For that matter, why not just fix up JH-7As?

Or make a carrier version of the Q-5?

As a matter of fact, the PLAAF does upgrade their earlier birds. They have a lot of old birds on their own and they don't need to source or buy from the outside for used planes to upgrade.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Just actual .... :D

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Russia to Deliver Su-33 Fighters to China

Russia’s state exporter of weapons, Rosoboronexport is completing negotiations to ship to China up to 50 Su-33 jet fighters for a total worth of $2.5 billion. If the deal is ever clinched, it will be the second biggest contract for export of Russia’s armaments.
Till late this year, China will buy in Russia two Su-33 jet fighters on trial for the aircraft carrier that is currently constructed. The deal value is around $100 million, sources close to negotiations said. Bound by the very tough confidential agreements on military cooperation, Rosoboronexport doesn’t comment on the talks.

But the sources say the contract will be sealed in December in Beijing. The aircraft will be constructed by Komsomolsk-on-Amur Production Association and tested by China at the ground range and at Varyag aircraft carrier that was acquired in Ukraine in 1999 and which construction is being completed now. Russia uses Su-33 only at Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier.

China intends to come up with its own aircraft carrier by 2010, equipping it with foreign jets. But it will probably attempt to design its own variant of Su-33 by using Russia's technology.

The agreed option provides for delivery of 12 more Su-33 jets. The consignment may widen to 48, stepping up the budget to $2.5 billion. Should it happen, it would be the second biggest military and technological contract of Russia, trailing in size only the $3-billion agreement for Su-30MKI license assembly in India.

“Theoretically, China can make aircraft. They have mastered license assembly of J-11, the actual Su-27SK. The question is how much it will cost and how efficient it will be in operation,” said Konstantin Makienko, an expert of Strategy and Technology Center.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
No matter what, MiG-23 and Yak-141 for Varyag ain't going to happen. The MiG-23 belongs to the J-8II generation and level of performance. Why not just fix up the J-8IIs and these are more maintainable too. Variable wings are problematic in maintenance which is why they're retiring Tomcats.

For that matter, why not just fix up JH-7As?

Or make a carrier version of the Q-5?

As a matter of fact, the PLAAF does upgrade their earlier birds. They have a lot of old birds on their own and they don't need to source or buy from the outside for used planes to upgrade.
J-8IIs are to big/heavy for that, but JH-7As & Q-5 may, I agree! The bottom line is if MiG-23/27 were really far along in being navalized, even in the design stage, and/or/if it would be cheaper to navalize JH-7As & Q-5.
Deino says:
Ohhh please !!! The MiG-29 was the successor to the MiG-23 in Russian service and at least one generation behind!
If You follow Your argument You could use a navalised MiG-19/J-6
Those are too old, so your comparison is out of proportion, sorry.
J-5 - version of the MiG-17 [7] (Retired, some converted to drones/UAV's)
J-6 - version of the MiG-19 [8] (Mostly retired, few used in training/reserve units)
Q-5 - A ground attack aircraft developed from the MiG-19 [6] (Cold war, ~300 in service)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army_Air_Force

The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I failed to mention
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


and J-7 / F-7-all were operated & upgraded for decades by many air forces!
 
Last edited:

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
BLUEJACKET no nation is going to pull out the former Russian designs to establish an CV airwing. It ain't gonna happen. Espeically on aircraft that are not in production. I cannot understand why you think this may happen.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
BLUEJACKET no nation is going to pull out the former Russian designs to establish an CV airwing. It ain't gonna happen. Espeically on aircraft that are not in production. I cannot understand why you think this may happen.
Well...it is becoming a moot point. The Indians are going Mig-29 with their carriers, and it looks like China is going SU-33s. Although, from an older aircraft standpoint, Brazil still uses A-4s, my bet is that at the first opportunity they would upgrade away from that if they can afford it.

I do not see any other CVs coming along that will use anything other than Mig-29s and SU-33s as far as current Russian equipment goes and your point about not consideing old Mig-23's etc. is spot on. The Chinese may eventually field their own naval fighter...in fact I would be surprised if they didn't in the next 5 years or more.

Just my opinion.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Well...it is becoming a moot point. The Indians are going Mig-29 with their carriers, and it looks like China is going SU-33s. Although, from an older aircraft standpoint, Brazil still uses A-4s, my bet is that at the first opportunity they would upgrade away from that if they can afford it.
I do not see any other CVs coming along that will use anything other than Mig-29s and SU-33s as far as current Russian equipment goes and your point about not consideing old Mig-23's etc. is spot on. The Chinese may eventually field their own naval fighter...in fact I would be surprised if they didn't in the next 5 years or more. Just my opinion.

Thanks for mentioning Brazil's A-4s! I hope the PLAN will be happy with SU-33s (if that report is true), but as time goes they may still get lighter fighters, especially if there are problems with domesticaly build SU-33 version. As was mentioned on J-10 tread, that fighter can be navalized also!

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1546&page=27

In case they won't get SU-25/34, I won't discount something similar to Su-24 FENCER -if not for the carriers, then for land based anti-ship/strike role.
The Su-24 Fencer is an all-weather supersonic low-level striker/attacker/bomber with capability of deliver conventional and nuclear warloads with great precision. The Su-24 has capabilities similar to the United States F-111 Aardvark/EF-111A Raven. However, the Su-24 is smaller, lighter, and more powerful than its counterpart.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
BlueJacket,

China has no use for old planes like mig-23/27, su-24. Honestly, even getting su-33 is archaic compared to the likes of Rafale, F-35 and Super Hornet.
 
Top