Potential PLANAF Carrier Aviation Alternatives

One reason why I think SAC got the contract is because of proximity. Shenyang isn't that far from Dalian. Chengdu on the other hand, is deep inside panda country.

I do think that Zhuk MSE should be the minimum. I don't know the real story why the PLAAF didn't go through the Su-30MK3 contract, or whatever problems Phazotron had developing the Zhuk MSE or its predecessor the Zhuk-27. China was supposedly interested to use this radar on its Su-30MKKs and J-11s. However, testing of this radar on the Su-33UB and Su-30MK3 prototype may indicate this is currently the most mature and solution that is far enough advanced, and sketched to be used on a potential Su-33MKK.

I don't really know how well the N001VEP in the MK2 performed. I guess the PLANAF wasn't that impressed in the end. And it's also the wrong century now to use a twist cassegrain antenna on a fighter radar. Even though this is the radar the PLAAF has the most experience with, perhaps that won't be enough to balance it to its favor.

The Russians may charge an arm and a leg for the phase array radars. I don't know how mature those solutions are.

I think what China had in mind maybe something like this:

J-11 airframe, FBW, avionics,
Su-33 style canards, wings and landing gear modification
WS-10A with TVC nozzles
KLJ or JL type fighter radar with support for YJ-83, YJ-91 and PL-12 missiles.

However, regardless even if China manages to make that above without Sukhoi's blessing, asistance, objection or intervention, the PLANAF still has to acquire Su-33UBs just for training, unless China is allowed to make a two seater (it will still end up as a tandem) which I kind of doubt at this piont.

It is interesting that you guys have almost totally written off a twin engine version of J-10 for carrier duty. I think if they can implement TVC nozzles and twin engine configuration on J-10 it would be a much better candidiate than SU series fighter just because of the sheer size difference. It's more bang for the buck.

But sofar any twin engined J-10s exists on our imaginations but Su-33 is out there flying and ready for upgrades and stuff...

Gollevainen said:

But sofar any twin engined J-10s exists on our imaginations but Su-33 is out there flying and ready for upgrades and stuff...

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True Indeed, and thats exactly why i said "IF". There are following things to consider.
1) If a twin engined J-10 is in making?
2) How long will it take for PLAN to start training(get varyag operational atleast for training) ?

My apprehension for another Aircraft from Russia or anyother outside source stems from the fact that China has resisted the temptation for some time and concentrated more on local fighters. There was another thread regarding Su-35 and whispers that china will go for it but nothing came out of it. I think there is general feeling that whatever that could be bought as out of box solution could be developed with some effort locally.

Just my 2 cents (and i am no expert on China )

maglomanic said:

True Indeed, and thats exactly why i said "IF". There are following things to consider.
1) If a twin engined J-10 is in making?
2) How long will it take for PLAN to start training(get varyag operational atleast for training) ?

My apprehension for another Aircraft from Russia or anyother outside source stems from the fact that China has resisted the temptation for some time and concentrated more on local fighters. There was another thread regarding Su-35 and whispers that china will go for it but nothing came out of it. I think there is general feeling that whatever that could be bought as out of box solution could be developed with some effort locally.

Just my 2 cents (and i am no expert on China )

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Yeah, it's quite clear that China is not interested in importing much more fighters from the Russians. However, carrier capable fighter is a different issue. Su-33 and su-33ub are already tested platform on Kuznetzov (basically same class as Varyag). While I'd like to see China eventually come out with a carrier version of J-10 for future carriers. It seems like China wants to take the cautious approach as usual and make use of a tested system. So, does this mean we won't see a naval J-10? Not necessarily. If CAC is determined enough, it can still press on developing one without pla funding. As of now, it looks like SAC is getting the funding from pla for the carrier fighter development. So, you know what that means! More flankers.

I have one question for you guys. JH-7A seems like a realistic feature of PLAN air wing. More so because of it's better FBW,avionics and antiship weapons capability. What is the chance that we will see a carrier based version of JH-7A??

maglomanic said:

I have one question for you guys. JH-7A seems like a realistic feature of PLAN air wing. More so because of it's better FBW,avionics and antiship weapons capability. What is the chance that we will see a carrier based version of JH-7A??

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about zero. It doesn't have the engines or the structure to be able to lift off on a carrier (even if China eventually gets catapult to work later). What China needs is to put some assault helicopters like WZ-10 on it + L-15 for attacking missions.

L-15? That plane claims to have 8+ HP, but can that trainer effectively replace an attack plane?
And will WZ-10 have enough range for inland attack missions? Choppers do have low range....

Doesn't China have any plans at all to improve JH-7's engines?

Maybe new !!!

According to Andrei Fomin, Sukhoi are mulling a redesign of the Su-27KUB nose. The cockpit will be redesigned heavily to allow crew access through the canopy rather than through the nose wheel well. The cockpit view will be improved, advanced cockpit controls introduced and the right hand seat pilot will have a full set of controls (including engine controls). The Sokol radar should be replaced by the Irbis radar.

The hope is that China will order 60 SU-33K fighters and 40 Su-27KUB for their possible future carrier fleet.

Source:
Take-Off, July 2006 Farnborough International Edition.

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Cheers, Deino

sumdud said:

L-15? That plane claims to have 8+ HP, but can that trainer effectively replace an attack plane?
And will WZ-10 have enough range for inland attack missions? Choppers do have low range......
....?

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China don't have much experience in carrier start and landing;
so the first steps should be done by cheap, low cost trainers - and the twin-engined L-15 is the only possible chinese trainer to teach and get carrier-licence;
after that the PLAN-pilots could change to real fighters - but: which one?
What's the mission?
For amphibious support the L-15 (and attack helos like WZ-10) could be the first choice, like tphuang sad - and amphibious support is a must for PLAN !
These wings also could be the equipement of light amphibious aircraft carriers of around 15,000t to 20,000t displacement.

A real carrier wing to win air-fights should be the next step.
May be, we can see navalized twin-engined J-10 or SU-derivates (like SU-30MKK2, SU-33 K, SU-27 KUB or "J-11 C - ) in chinese carrier operations in the future. But these planes also should have a bigger carrier - the Varjag to me seems to be to small, compared to US-carriers.