PLAN's Lack of sufficient helicopters...an issue?

PLAN does possess ship borne aircraft...Z-9, Z-8 and the Ka-27 Helix.

The issue is are there enough?

According to Janes for the past decade, reported only 10 Z-9s, until recently this year's Fight Ships finally changed its numbers to 26 Z-9s.
This is a mix of the old French built units and the new Z-9Cs.

Next is the Z-8, at least a dozen are serving the PLAN, but these are more better suited for submarine/auxilary/shore support than actually being based onboard surface combatants.

And so far, only 8 Ka-27 Helix are in service, half of them being SAR versions. More maybe expected.

PLAN's fleet used to be one that operated without helicopters, with small ships, few frigates and destroyers, and even for the largest combatants, they did not carry aircraft.

But now times have changed. the modern PLAN has 31 combat ships that can facilitate helicopters, including four ships that have double hangars. In addition, PLAN has at least 8 fleet auxilaries that have large hangars, and nearly 20 Yuting/Yuting II LSTs that all have helo decks.

Assuming Janes is right, PLAN having 26 Z-9Cs and 8 Ka-27s, and about 15 Z-8s, it appears that PLAN has far more ships than aircraft. If the true situation is that Z-9C numbers are only around 10, then that would even be more disastrous.

In most Western Navies, each ship would have its own attachment of aviation personnel and of course the pilots and one aircraft (or two/three depending on how many are assigned to one ship). Western navies always operate more helicopters than the ships, ensuring that in time of war, there are spare aircraft to go around, in addition to performing shore based tasks.

I fear the PLAN has much work in this area of ship borne aircraft. The pilots for starters are probably not as well trained as their Western counterparts, especially in ASW flights and combat operations. There are seldom live exercises of Z-9C/Z-8 using torpedoes, and Z-8 despite being claimed to be able to fire missiles, has had no such practise.

Each ship cannot possess its own aircraft and aircrew due to the lower numbers of helicopters already. Therefore, I highly doubt PLAN has perfected the process in which to integrate aircraft to one ship...in otherwords if a PLAN ship cannot continually possess its own aircraft in the long term, there maybe serious defincies in joint training and operations.

I think PLAN should aim for 40 Z-9Cs, 30 Z-8s and at least 20 Ka-27s.
That is 90 aircraft compared to the current 40-50.

40 Z-9Cs would be sufficiently adequate to equip the 20+ ships that operate the Z-9, as well as fulfilling coastal patrol functions.
30 Z-8s...PLAN's only auxilary support working horse so far, and needs a replacement badly, though the new and improved Z-8F is set to fly. 30 are needed at least...considering that the majority of them are increasingly used for transporting marines. With 20 Ka-27s, this ensures that PLAN has enough aircraft in the long term to equip the latest surface combatants.

well, PLAN is exporting 6 Z-9EC as part of the F-22P deal. That kind of scares me, since it barely has any Z-9Cs to begin with. The number 26 sounds like a lot actually. How many Z-9Cs have the people on CDF identified? Also, we don't need that many ka-28. Once naval version of Z-10 or naval version of Z-15 comes out, they will be mass equipping the surface combatants.

If i were the CNO of the PLAN ASW modernazation would be my #1 priority. #2 would be helo's. They don't have near enough to to the job. Way to many ships. Not enough helos. Those ships should not go to sea without an caple ASW/SAR helo or 2 onboard.

The PLA needs to strive foward on this matter and get what ever helo they are developing in service and in numbers suitable for force projection.

ASW/SAR are important missions that the PLAN is lacking in at this time.

Imangine that the PLAN ahd say two LPH type ships with enough helos for both to operate at the same time. When the "Boxing Day" Tsunami hit on 26 Dec. 2004 the PLAN could have storied to the disaster to perform refief and rescuse missions. Instead the U... .well we all know what happened.

Although the Z-9 is based on the old French Daulphin, Z-9C is quite a capable helo itself, afterall not many countries have managed to adapt an indigenous helicopter design for naval or ship board operations.

Of course, I can't wait for Z-10 or Z-15, because PLAN needs something up there with the Lynx and Seahawk. Ka-27 does bridge this gap, and because Z-10 or Z-15 naval variants won't be ready till at least 2015 (I'd guess anyway), I'd say import more badly needed Ka-27s for now...another dozen at least.

chicket9 said:

Although the Z-9 is based on the old French Daulphin, Z-9C is quite a capable helo itself, afterall not many countries have managed to adapt an indigenous helicopter design for naval or ship board operations.

Of course, I can't wait for Z-10 or Z-15, because PLAN needs something up there with the Lynx and Seahawk. Ka-27 does bridge this gap, and because Z-10 or Z-15 naval variants won't be ready till at least 2015 (I'd guess anyway), I'd say import more badly needed Ka-27s for now...another dozen at least.

Click to expand...

The USN has had navalized helos for over 50 years...The Russians almost as long.

What you have posted may well be all true. but right now the PLAN is suffenciently lacking in the operation of helos. They need helos at sea on ships right now. Is there a quick fix? Nope. Unless they are willing to purchase numbers of Ka-27's until a servicable helo comes on line.

just correcting you guys, the ka-27 is the version in service with the russian navy. The imrpoved model for export is called the ka-28.

The PLAN seems to purchase one new ka-28 with every modern destroyer it commisions or buys. hopefully from now till 2015, the ka-31 will be purchased instead.

hmm, I have some serious doubts about ka-31

In the recent news, IN had to ground its fleet of ka-31 AEW helicopters. I don't know whether China should buy any ka-31. If catapult is not added to Varyag (which is likely), then would would China get? Y-7 AEW is planned for future carriers with catapults, but Varyag seems to have no other option than ka-31.

Also, if this kind of problem is found with ka-31, can China really trust ka-28? As usual, reliability is a huge issue with Russian systems.

They should still build more Z-9Cs, even though I don't think that they are large enough to conduct distant operations.

If i were the CNO of the PLAN ASW modernazation would be my #1 priority. #2 would be helo's. They don't have near enough to to the job. Way to many ships. Not enough helos. Those ships should not go to sea without an caple ASW/SAR helo or 2 onboard.

The PLA needs to strive foward on this matter and get what ever helo they are developing in service and in numbers suitable for force projection.

ASW/SAR are important missions that the PLAN is lacking in at this time.

Imangine that the PLAN ahd say two LPH type ships with enough helos for both to operate at the same time. When the "Boxing Day" Tsunami hit on 26 Dec. 2004 the PLAN could have storied to the disaster to perform refief and rescuse missions. Instead the U... .well we all know what happened.

Click to expand...

i agree with this view.

other then ASW heli, a LST/LPH/LPD that can land and supply a few helis which can more people and equipment of rescue mission are also welcomed considering a long coastline that doesn't always get good weather.

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i was impressed by the amount of work singapore could do with it's LST (classed as LPH by other countries) during the Tsunami. these 6000 tons ship can carry quite abit of stuff and support a couple of Super Puma helis.

for singapore, i think there isn't navalized heli too. the SP which was used with the LST, seem to be place on trials with the frigates. i wonder if a ASW kit will be develop for it after the trials, or will the RSN procure it's own helis later on.

the lack of navalized heli doesn't seem to be an issue until you are ready to break out of friendly waters i guess...

Thank you for your response akinkhoo.

I just know if the PRC could have better responded to the tsunami they would have built up favor among the effected nation. But instead the US is building on there tsunami relif efforts. Simply because they have the ablity to do so. There really is no reason why the PRC should not be doing more in humanitarian relief efforts except the lack of equipment and trained personnell. Most notably helicopters & one single LPH type ship.

The USN is deploying it super sized west coast hospital ship USNS Mercy to the Pacific on 24 April 2006. Their mission?? To build up a "good neighbor policy". To build on the rappourt the US established during it's recent disaster relief efforts. You fellows are smart enough to know why.

Aledgelly the Mercy has been re-fitted with a temperory hangar for helos. I can't find any recent pics to back that statement up.