PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[montyp165]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

All the way past the indian ocean? Why would the PLAN want to send SSNs as escort for fighting pirates?
I'm sure the US would've detected the movements.

SSNs also make excellent surveillance platforms endurance wise, so support of surface units even in this case does make sense.

 

[A.Man]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

094 Returned to home, Oh, Families, Children, Girls and Women for the men?

Join the Navy-to see the world?

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[sealordlawrence]

»Ø¸´: Re: »Ø¸´: Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The Soviets deployed primarily the KILO’s to the two oceanic fleets, the Pacific and Northern. Only one (experimental) is in the Black Sea, and two in the Baltic, of which for the training of foreign KILO crews. Why they transferred the second one, Hull 3 from Komsomolsk, to the Baltic in 1986 is not very clear, as the submarine is really to big for those shallow waters.

And this appears to have been something of a design flaw that they are trying to rectify with the Sank Petersburg class.

However, when you add the word "long-range" to your statement, it is entirely correct. Despite its size, the KILO is not a long-range submarine in the sense that the ZULU (Pr. 611), the FOXTROT (Pr. 641) or the TANGO (Pr. 641B) were. It is, as you say, for extended or forward coastal defence.

Thank you.

However, the Soviets did not stop building the TANGO because of nuclear submarines coming along. When the last TANGO was delivered in 1982, the Soviet Navy already possessed some 120 nuclear attack submarines (SSN/SSGN), so we are talking of something very different from today’s PLAN.

Exactly what I mean by out of control, the Soviets had a habit of continuing the construction of grossly obsolete submarines, check out the Foxtrot for instance whilst by the mid 90s they were building 3 different classes of SSN even excluding the Oscar class. This is why the Soviet Union is not a good example.

In many ways the PLAN is today where the Soviet Navy was in the early 1960’s, and they will follow generally the same policy, that is producing a large conventional submarine fleet for guarding the access to Chinese waters.

Agreed, but there are a number of crucial differences that are not for discussion in this thread.

 

[sealordlawrence]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The following picture, taken at Hainan and posted on Xinhui's blog shows what appear to be 2 093 class SSN's and in the background one can just about make out what appears to be an 094 SSBN. This confirms not only that Sanya nuclear submarine base is operational but also that China has significantly re-orientated its nuclear submarine forces to place greater emphasis on its southern flank.

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[challenge]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

according to a report, USN is using RADSAT to track Chinese submarine.
or SAR radar to track wake generate by submerging submarine.
Do China has similiar technology?
few years ago, a chinese american engineer was arrested in the US,accuse him of leaking the technology to China.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The following picture, taken at Hainan and posted on Xinhui's blog shows what appear to be 2 093 class SSN's and in the background one can just about make out what appears to be an 094 SSBN. This confirms not only that Sanya nuclear submarine base is operational but also that China has significantly re-orientated its nuclear submarine forces to place greater emphasis on its southern flank.

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Not necessarily, a while ago, we talked about how they have a lot more 093s and 094s than people (including DoD) admitted to. We saw evidences as early as 2008 on GE for 5 093s and 3 094s at different part of the country. It seemed like they had 3 bases with each base having at least 2 093s and 1 094. I also believe they have one or more 091 in Sanya.

btw, back on the topic of the ocean-going SSKs. I think the Japanese and Australian having shown with their huge submarines that you can really make long range deployments with conventional subs. In fact, the Australians I believe were sending their submarines to spy on the Russians during cold war. So, I would say that it is possible for that new large sub to go far, but I would also say that I can't see it being able to keep up with a fleet for a long range deployment. You need the nuclear subs to escort a fleet for that kind of deployment. However, since we've seen Song submarines go to Sea of Japan, it is quite possible for that new large subs to make patrols to the area between 1st and 2nd island chain.

 

[sealordlawrence]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The problem is that recent Google Earth imagery shows that 2 of the 3-4 094 boats that are in existence have not moved for 3 years suggesting that they are not operational.

If you have the google earth imagery showing the 093 class then please repost it as I have been unable to find it. Certainly all the open sources I am aware of report only 2 093 class boats as having been completed.

If the names or coordinates of the bases are available that would be great as well?

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The problem is that recent Google Earth imagery shows that 2 of the 3-4 094 boats that are in existence have not moved for 3 years suggesting that they are not operational.

If you have the google earth imagery showing the 093 class then please repost it as I have been unable to find it. Certainly all the open sources I am aware of report only 2 093 class boats as having been completed.

If the names or coordinates of the bases are available that would be great as well?

I'm pretty sure it's earlier in this thread actually. Crobato posted it a while back with those photos. And it's been a problem that I have not really kept up to date with those pictures. Hopefully, the new China's Map World will have better images. Anyway, here is what Crobato posted a while ago,

these posts are showing 093s at Sanya
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/plan-submarines-thread-ii-25-3746.html#post95287
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/plan-submarines-thread-ii-25-3746.html#post95316
these are the ones showing in NSF at Jianggezhuang
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/plan-submarines-thread-ii-19-3746.html#post85766
this is a 093 at Xiaopingdao
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/chinese-submarines-thread-59-920.html#post75367
but the 093s and 094s in NSF move around between huludao, xiaopingdao and jianggezhuang.

Need to look up that map world utility to see better photos.

Edit: let me update, map world is a piece of junk, not ready for use!
Using google earth's photo of Xiaopingdao from May 12th, there appears to be one sub that is 98 m and another sub that is 78 m (at least the portion that's above water). The first one could be a 093 still. Check 121 29'39'' E and 38 49'03''N
outside of that, you can get the coordinates of huludao and jianggezhuang from SOC's blog and find them on Google Earth.

 

[A.Man]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

what we have here?

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[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

what we have here?

That is of course a photo (in fact two photos stitched together) of the Yulin nuclear submarine base. It was published on CDF in June of this year. Besides the two SHANG the single JIN can be distinguished behind the SHANG to the right.