PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

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sealordlawrence

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»Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

A couple of points,

1) Galrahn, it is not uncommon for the Chinese to recycle numerical designations for new ship classes despite the fact they have little if any relation to each other, compare the 052 with the 052C for instance, or 051 with 051C.

2) Having made a quick check of available photos Jane's is right, the sail on the new Yuan is modified, most notably at the top towards the front where there is significant shaping compared to the straight cut on previous boats.

I think 039B is a perfectly acceptable designation for the new boat and 041A (or G) might be well suited to the new Yuan. Either way these are two very interesting developments that yet again underscore the investment China is making in its fleet.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

sealordlawrence said:
Jane's is reporting that the sail on the new Yuan boat, behind the new SSK type, is heavily modified compared to previous boats, it apparently features additional curves, can anyone confirm this?
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I haven't read that Jane article, but I've been saying that since it first appeared. We need updated photo of the rest of it's hull, but the sail clearly features more stealthy curves. The old sail pretty much just has a bunch of 90 degree angles. It seems to be adopting some of that from the new SSK. Now, I think that makes it slightly changed from the last batch of Yuans. So, they may just be falling Song's path where the 2nd batch of 3 is different from the prototype. After that, the final mass production variant is different from the 2nd batch.
 
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sealordlawrence

Junior Member
»Ø¸´: Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

tphuang said:
I haven't read that Jane article, but I've been saying that since it first appeared. We need updated photo of the rest of it's hull, but the sail clearly features more stealthy curves. The old sail pretty much just has a bunch of 90 degree angles. It seems to be adopting some of that from the new SSK. Now, I think that makes it slightly changed from the last batch of Yuans. So, they may just be falling Song's path where the 2nd batch of 3 is different from the prototype. After that, the final mass production variant is different from the 2nd batch.
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Except there are supposedly 4 or 5 of the "Batch 1" Yuans with this being the first in the new configuration. I would suggest that this Yuan is simply a series improvement on the earlier vessels, the design may have even been altered during construction if the changes are limited to the sail. Further construction may well be dependent on the success of the 039B class.
 
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Centrist

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Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

tphuang said:
I haven't read that Jane article, but I've been saying that since it first appeared. We need updated photo of the rest of it's hull, but the sail clearly features more stealthy curves. The old sail pretty much just has a bunch of 90 degree angles. It seems to be adopting some of that from the new SSK. Now, I think that makes it slightly changed from the last batch of Yuans. So, they may just be falling Song's path where the 2nd batch of 3 is different from the prototype. After that, the final mass production variant is different from the 2nd batch.
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Excuse me for asking this, but I know little about submarine design. How does "stealthy curves" make a submarine less detectable? I thought the main goal of submarine design was to make it quieter.
 
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Krabat1976

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Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

Centrist said:
How does "stealthy curves" make a submarine less detectable? I thought the main goal of submarine design was to make it quieter.
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If the design make the sub more hydrodynamically efficient, then the sub will be more quiet than a less efficient submarine cruising at the same speed.
 
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sealordlawrence

Junior Member
»Ø¸´: Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

Centrist said:
Excuse me for asking this, but I know little about submarine design. How does "stealthy curves" make a submarine less detectable? I thought the main goal of submarine design was to make it quieter.
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You clearly know little about language though. The word stealth does not refer specifically to radar, it means, to be covert. Being quieter would thus increase the vessels stealth characteristics. In this case the use of shaping to improve hydrodynamic performance and reduce the sound of water moving over the sail. Additionally, greater hydrodynamic efficiency will will allow the vessel to maintain higher under water speeds with lower propulsive effort thus reducing the noise from the propulsion plant.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Just to add a little bit. The guy who posted these pictures said that the sub is over 4000 tonnes. Which would make it among the largest conventional sub in the world with only the oyashio and soryu class comparable in size. I don't think that is too surprising when we consider its size relative to yuan which is already a pretty large ssk. Also, he mentioned that they are really producing a lot of the yuan now with wc and jn both building them.
 
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sealordlawrence

Junior Member
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

tphuang said:
Just to add a little bit. The guy who posted these pictures said that the sub is over 4000 tonnes. Which would make it among the largest conventional sub in the world with only the oyashio and soryu class comparable in size. I don't think that is too surprising when we consider its size relative to yuan which is already a pretty large ssk. Also, he mentioned that they are really producing a lot of the yuan now with wc and jn both building them.
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That displacement is not impossible, it certainly looks like a big boat. Furthermore the development of large ocean going SSK's would make sense given the relative lack of success of the SSN programme, it will be interesting to see which fleet gets this new SSK.

The whole Yuan class is curious, we dont even know if the improved boat tied up next to the 039B is the 5th or 6th unit, if two shipyards are now building them then numbers could theoretically increase dramatically but I would like to see more photographic evidence.
 
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