PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[AssassinsMace]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Apparently most front line Western Countries, most certainly America have the acoustic signature of all the Chinese submarines, and if some articles are to be believed, they have been snooping around the Chinese sub base area in their own subs etc without being detected. What this means is that the more experienced Americans with quieter subs have got the Chinese beat at submarine warfare caper.

You shouldn't go into that territory because one can just bring up the Kitty Hawk incident. Yeah you can make up excuses like they weren't in ASW mode, but what about the sub escort. It didn't even detect that Song. No one did. And most likely there were more than one out there because it would've had to have been a coordinated effort among the PLAN to have that sub pop-up without warning within strike range.

 

[bladerunner]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

You shouldn't go into that territory because one can just bring up the Kitty Hawk incident. Yeah you can make up excuses like they weren't in ASW mode, but what about the sub escort. It didn't even detect that Song. No one did. And most likely there were more than one out there because it would've had to have been a coordinated effort among the PLAN to have that sub pop-up without warning within strike range.

Advice taken thankyou, but then how would you explain( That Kitty Hawk incident has been done to death so to speak, with plausible explanations, and speculative views on both sides). but how do you explain American subs patrolling Chinese waters without as much as a wimper from the Chinese side?

 

[AssassinsMace]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Are you assuming or do you have proof. Because like pointed out before... if the US has all the info they need on Chinese subs, then why send the Impeccable?

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Hmm lots of skepticsm I sense.

I'm not sure about the noisiness of Chinese subs, though subs from the Song forward, are said to be quite quiet. (corrections anybody?)

And I do have to be skeptical about the Chinese not being able to locate American subs.
Do countries usually complain when they find another countries subs in/near their waters?

Either way, the PLA in general is very strange and withdrawn. I don't think anyone but perhaps Hu Jintao knows what the whole of the PLA(N) is in terms of numbers and sub patrols.

oh and Assasin'sMace, The Impeccable (and other ships) could be sent there just to monitor Chinese sub activity. I mean it's obvious America wants to contain the Chinese as much as possible in terms of military. There fore they send ships like the Impeccable.. Pretty Self Explainin IMO at any rate. It's probably frustrating for the Chinese though Lolz.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I'm merely surmising here, in the reason why the Chinese haven't complained, is because they haven't been able to locate them.

Do you honestly think that American web-goers and sailors would know more than the Chinese? The minute the Americans release such information, the Chinese will claim to have caught these subs snooping around regardless of whether they have or not.

This is not my opinion but merely views of Americans/ sailors I have viewed from here and there so perhaps someone more knowledgeable, like Popeye or Jeff Herd, could comment on whether they are just idle boasts on the part of some American based posters.

Yes, we should wait for someone more knowledgeable since last I time I checked American posters on numerous defense forums have made claims that Chinese nuke subs have been spotted under Golden Gate Bridge.

Some things are obvious though, like the Chinese Subs are still noisy, and very few crews have enjoyed the experience of extended long range patrols, like their American counterparts.

That has been true in the past, and even today Chinese nuclear subs are about one full generation behind Western and American ones. However, only a fool would believe that the American nuclear subs will have an advantage over Chinese SSKs in Chinese littoral waters. Apart from the Mings rotting away in their dry docks, the loudest diesels in Chinese service are the upgraded Kilos, which would be considered top of the line for many navies around the world. On top of that you got Yuans, which is truly a modern, highly capable sub. Other than the Scorpene, 212, and Lada, nothing else even comes close.

And I do have to be skeptical about the Chinese not being able to locate American subs.
Do countries usually complain when they find another countries subs in/near their waters?

Its the nuke boats that are loud. They have improved greatly since the Han and Xia, but still loud.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

any estimates on how loud the 094/093 is compared to american subs then?

 

[bladerunner]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Hmm lots of skepticsm I sense.

I'm not sure about the noisiness of Chinese subs, though subs from the Song forward, are said to be quite quiet. (corrections anybody?)

And I do have to be skeptical about the Chinese not being able to locate American subs.
Do countries usually complain when they find another countries subs in/near their waters?

My memorys a little hazy on this but didn't the Japanese complain in a roundabout way when a Chinese sub was spotted in Jap waters

 

[bladerunner]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Are you assuming or do you have proof. Because like pointed out before... if the US has all the info they need on Chinese subs, then why send the Impeccable?

As I said before it wasn't my view, just sources that I read, I'd be more than pleased if you can logically refute it.
One never has enough info as it continually needs updating, but until recently Chinese subs spent more time in port or home waters, rather than blue water patrols.As Crobatos post 2/5 points out, their ballistic missile boats have never ventured out on patrol.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

If you want my guesstimate of the 093 and 094, I would say somewhere between the late Thresher and early 688, at the most, probably with the Narwhal, which is a heavily modded Thresher class with turbine electric drive without reduction gears. Assuming the Narwhal's case if the 093 is rumored to have turboelectric drive.

The 094 is probably a little noisier than the 093.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Ah I remember what you speak of. Well for that incident at any rate, was special. I think it was one of the few times (at that time) that a chinese SSN (I think it was a Han class) went into other countries waters. Obviously the Japanese at the time were like "OMG, chinese SSN!!!" at the time, so they had a pretty big reaction.
That and the fact that media always likes tasty tidbits of information when they hear China doing something out of the "ordinary".
One also has to take into account China and Japan's history.

I dunno. Are there any other incidents involving SSN's you can think of? Cause I'm pretty sure countries with SSN's violate each other's waters pretty often (apart from China perhaps). i doubt that they would voice that big concerns though; no need to attract too much media attention.