PLAN Sovremenny DDG 136, 137, 138 & 139 Thread

[Jeff Head]

It could be done, but is it cost effective ? Sovremenny-class was built around P-270 Moskit (3М80МВЕ version for China), everything else is secondary...they would use them for few more years paired with other more capable ships (as already suggested here) and then gradually retire them .

I agree with this.

Any nation today still has to respect those eight missiles each of these vessels carry.

And particularly on the two later vessels with the Gadfly and the Kashtans they provide a credible layered air defense...and particularly if accompanied by either a Type 054A or a Type 052C/D.

I expect we will see those vessels for another 10 or 15 years continue n service with the PLAN.

 

[FarkTypeSoldier]

I agree with this.

Any nation today still has to respect those eight missiles each of these vessels carry.

And particularly on the two later vessels with the Gadfly and the Kashtans they provide a credible layered air defense...and particularly if accompanied by either a Type 054A or a Type 052C/D.

I expect we will see those vessels for another 10 or 15 years continue n service with the PLAN.

Haha... let this thread continue for another 10 to 15 years... LOL

 

[Blackstone]

I agree with this.

Any nation today still has to respect those eight missiles each of these vessels carry.

And particularly on the two later vessels with the Gadfly and the Kashtans they provide a credible layered air defense...and particularly if accompanied by either a Type 054A or a Type 052C/D.

I expect we will see those vessels for another 10 or 15 years continue n service with the PLAN.

But how would the four Sovremennys be used in 10 to 15 years? Their sensors and especially datalinks are already dated, compared with 052Ds, and would be ancient in another decade. Upgrading the datalinks to PLAN+10 years standards might not be cost effective, if it's even possible, and anything they could do could be done better by 052C/D/E(?) destroyers. Also, keeping the Sovs as primary anti-capital ship cudgels harkens back to single-mission platforms of yesteryear, and not in the direction PLAN has been going. On the other hand, they're too expensive of investments to decommission, disarm, and convert to Coast Guard duties.

 

[asif iqbal]

But how would the four Sovremennys be used in 10 to 15 years? Their sensors and especially datalinks are already dated, compared with 052Ds, and would be ancient in another decade. Upgrading the datalinks to PLAN+10 years standards might not be cost effective, if it's even possible, and anything they could do could be done better by 052C/D/E(?) destroyers. Also, keeping the Sovs as primary anti-capital ship cudgels harkens back to single-mission platforms of yesteryear, and not in the direction PLAN has been going. On the other hand, they're too expensive of investments to decommission, disarm, and convert to Coast Guard duties.

Considering how long those silly looking Ludas were in service we can be sure Sovs will last a long long time

People are getting way ahead of themselves no country had money to throw around certainly not China let's keep this in perspective Sovs might not be the best in PLAN but certainly are powerful warships

 

[joshuatree]

But how would the four Sovremennys be used in 10 to 15 years? Their sensors and especially datalinks are already dated, compared with 052Ds, and would be ancient in another decade. Upgrading the datalinks to PLAN+10 years standards might not be cost effective, if it's even possible, and anything they could do could be done better by 052C/D/E(?) destroyers. Also, keeping the Sovs as primary anti-capital ship cudgels harkens back to single-mission platforms of yesteryear, and not in the direction PLAN has been going. On the other hand, they're too expensive of investments to decommission, disarm, and convert to Coast Guard duties.

Like any vessel, with each passing year, they become cheaper to decommission, disarm, and convert or sell. Question would be how fast or slow they depreciate and this would be dependent on how fast the rest of the naval fleet grows.

As many pointed out, it be an expensive proposition to refurb the Sovs to make them fully compatible with Chinese sensors and datalinks. But by being separate and incompatible, they do not contribute as much as they could in a battle group. I think they will last another 10 years as active naval vessels serving within the first island chain so there are land based assets to help address any weak spots in coordination with other vessels. In fact, we rarely see them go far out. They were a stopgap solution and will remain as such.

At that point, I think it would be better to find a suitable buyer and refurb for that client instead because aside from Liaoning, the Sovs being steam turbines and boilers would be more of a op cost drag on a fleet that is gas turbine or diesel. And with the number of new vessels planned for the CG, in a decade, tonnage in the CG would not be as problematic as now.

 

[joshuatree]

Considering how long those silly looking Ludas were in service we can be sure Sovs will last a long long time

People are getting way ahead of themselves no country had money to throw around certainly not China let's keep this in perspective Sovs might not be the best in PLAN but certainly are powerful warships

I think Luda's longevity had less to do with being desirable and more with reality in the long time it took for the Chinese Navy to develop and build 052C/Ds at a level they are happy with. That is also the reason why the Sovs were purchased at that time.

10 years from now, the oldest Chinese Sov would be about 25 years old, that's a reasonable time to see if it could be sold off.

 

[Jeff Head]

But how would the four Sovremennys be used in 10 to 15 years?

Pretty much what they are doing now.

Their sensors and especially datalinks are already dated, compared with 052Ds, and would be ancient in another decade.

Their current sensors and links are fine. Perhaps not most recent cutting edge, but fine nonetheless.

Those are also things that can be upgraded if necessary.

Also, keeping the Sovs as primary anti-capital ship cudgels harkens back to single-mission platforms of yesteryear, and not in the direction PLAN has been going. .

The Sovs can be said to emphasize anti-surface, but they are not single mission. They have Anti-submarine weapons and a helo. They have a decent anti-air capability that is layered to mid ranges. Not good enough for a full saturation attack, but certainly good enough to either augment a Type 52C/D during one, or to provide out to mid range coverage for any SAG or task force in a threat assessment condition that would not inlude a saturation attack.

As I say...and time will tell f this is correct or not...but I believe we will see the Sovs in service with the PLAN for another 10-15 years.

 

[plawolf]

The Sovs were primarily purchased for a Taiwan scenario, but with relations between the straits at an all time best, they have rather lost their purpose.

With how infrequently the PLAN seem to use them, those Sovs could probably last another 20-30 years if the PLAN wants to keep operating them that long.

In the absence of a war with Taiwan, I think the best use the PLAN could put these Sovs to is play 'Dirty Harry' to potentially hostile enemy principle surface combatants.

If tensions get especially high and some country tries some old fashioned gunboat diplomacy on China and sails some carriers near China's coast to send a message, I would send the Sovs out with skeleton crews to shadow those unfriendly carriers. Preferably keeping them within visual range, to bypass as many layers of the enemy fleets missile defences as practical.

The Sovs will be on high combat alert readiness, but will not make they first hostile move. They are just exercising the west's vaunted freedom of navigation rights on the high seas.

They will be packing the shipborne equivalent of a Magnum .44, and silently asking the question, "do you feel lucky, punk?".

 

[FORBIN]

Project 956 EM

 

[Jeff Head]

The Sovs were primarily purchased for a Taiwan scenario, but with relations between the straits at an all time best, they have rather lost their purpose.

I do not think they have lost their purpose at all. They are very strong multi-mission vessels, that are very powerful.

With how infrequently the PLAN seem to use them, those Sovs could probably last another 20-30 years if the PLAN wants to keep operating them that long.

If tensions get especially high and some country tries some old fashioned gunboat diplomacy on China and sails some carriers near China's coast to send a message, I would send the Sovs out with skeleton crews to shadow those unfriendly carriers. Preferably keeping them within visual range, to bypass as many layers of the enemy fleets missile defences as practical.

No need to have skeleton crews. They should be fully manned in any such scenario.

They are just exercising the west's vaunted freedom of navigation rights on the high seas.

They will be packing the shipborne equivalent of a Magnum .44, and silently asking the question, "do you feel lucky, punk?".

As I say, the Sovs are very powerful multi-mission vessels.

The PLAN has four of them...but really six because the two Type 052B vessels have basically a very similar weapons fit. Essentially they are the PRC's indigenous Sov.

Those six vessels provide a very strong non-VLS, yet very heavy traditional DDG capability to the PLAN. Whether escorting capitol vessels in a CSG, ARG, or any other task force...or as a part of a SAG, or on individual show the flag mission, any other nation would be extremely wary and careful in any situation where they had to consider defending against them.