FarkTypeSoldier
Junior Member
Not new, the latest being induced was 2006. Although they are not the latest warship, but they are not to be messed around with either.
PLAN Sovremenny DDG 136, 137, 138 & 139 Thread
- Thread starter FarkTypeSoldier
- Start date
Not new, the latest being induced was 2006. Although they are not the latest warship, but they are not to be messed around with either.
FarkTypeSoldier
Junior Member
antiterror13
Brigadier
From this
Quote from the website "A total of 500 SS-N-22 AShM were ordered by the PRC for the four Russian-built Sovremenny class destroyers. With the exception of the first 20, these are the 3M-80MBE variant. The PRC has stockpiled roughly 15 SS-N-22 missiles per launch tube (each destroyer having a total of 8 launchers in two quadruple configurations).[citation needed] It is speculated that the PLA intends to use the missiles against carrier battle groups deployed by the United States Navy in the event of a confrontation with the Republic of China"
FarkTypeSoldier
Junior Member
Warning: This program is in Chinese
Hello all,
Military Analyst Program continues to introduce the modification of PLAN 136, 137, 138 and 139 Sovs.
The first cutscene introduces the Russian Navy’s Type 11356 stealth frigate with emphasis on its Shtil-1 VLS on the new warship. Reports speculate that Shtil-1 could be an available option on the currently renovating no.136 Hangzhou Sov. The current batches of PLAN Sovs are using the old Shtil single-arm AA missile launcher. The current Shtil missile system has a launch time of 12s per missile launch whereas the new Shtil-1 could effectively increase the launch duration to 1.5s to 2s per launch; a leap of 6x in efficient. Hence, China might be ‘interested’ in getting the Shtil-1 as an option for the no.136 upgrading.
The cutscene continues with the specs of Shtil-1 continues with its launch time, dimensions and basic data. The module based VLS could be fitted into any 1500 tons warship to increase the ship’s AA capabilities. First cutscene ends with a conclusion of the older Shtil single-armed launcher is effectively inefficient for modern naval warfare.
This episode’s guest is Prof ZZZ. He is first asked to describe how a Shtil-1 works. Prof ZZZ starts by introducing the first country’s navy to use VLS was the Soviet Navy with a catch up by US military on 1970s. He continues that a good weapon system has to consider its development much with Soviet’s missile technology. Shtil missiles were much capable missile in those days.
When asked by the host whether the Shtil-1 VLS would be introduced to the PLAN Sovs, Prof ZZZ answers, in his own opinion, that the possibility is relatively low. This is due to the fact that PLAN’s AA capability, along with its indigenous VLS is much better than Russian Navy’s VLS. This is due to the fact that PLAN’s improvement in its naval technologies in recent decade. Why does the PLAN have its advantage now is because originally the PLAN learns from Soviet Navy, however due to its dissolution in the 1990s to 2010s, Russian’s naval technology dipped and that is where China leaped forward.
China naval technologies leaped in terms of two areas – weapons and electronics. The key components such as radar (APAR) and Command & Control system. He adds that what people cannot see is that some components such as optics, data link and electric calculations systems. If one were to introduce Shtil-1, these are the essential systems to introduce together, one just a single missile system!
Prof ZZZ thinks that currently PLAN has such relative technologies, so it is non-essential for China to import such a system from Russia. He also adds that if the naval experts from PLAN verdicts that Shtil-1 is more advance than Chinese VLS and the upgrade would improve PLAN Sov significantly, then an import is possible. However, if the performance is on par and due to the fact PLAN can master this technology now, then an import would be infertile.
Second cutscene brings us to an advertising promotion of Mk 41 VLS. Footages of missiles are being launched from a Tico cv and AB ddg. In one of those scenes, a barrage of three missiles is being launched continuously for 1s per launch which enhances defense and attack capabilities of a fighting ship. Next it brings us to USN which built 27 Ticos with the first 5 having a pair of twin-arm launchers each while the remainings are VLS. The advantage of a vertical launched system vs arm launched is its speed of reloading and firing rate. The missile cells could also store more missiles than the traditional single or twin arm launchers. A single Mk 41 VLS can hold 61 missile cells while the Mk 26 holds 44 missiles in its internal magazine, an increased in 40%. In contemporary context, warships having VLS are the norms for naval shipbuilding in modern navies’ powerhouses.
Shtil missile onboard a PLAN Sov
Continues below...
FarkTypeSoldier
Junior Member
Continues...
The PLAN Sovs, as compared to modern ddgs are significantly lacking the AA capabilities despite having the older Shtil AA missile systems. The Sovs are designed in the 80s with an emphasis on Antiship role hence its supersonic Sunburn missiles. Its AA capabilities included a single arm launcher with 48 AA missiles front and aft. Its C&C systems can guide 12 missiles to track 6 hostile air threats.
But having entered the 21st century, the single arm Shtil could have much difficulties facing air and saturated attacks from air. The firing rate at 12s per launch is inefficient in neutralizing air threats. As such, reports said that enhancing a Sovs’ AA capability is one of the main tasks in the current upgrading project.
Next, host asks Prof ZZZ what is the main attractions of a VLS? ZZZ answers that it is a system that forms a core component since its introduction. In the past around 1980s, the PLAN was still using Type 051 ddgs, with traditional guns and angled launchers for Anti-ship missiles. While he was serving the PLAN, he read an English article regarding VLS being fitted on USN ships. He wondered how does it worked and the depth of its system with the missile length. He was quite curious on its work rate and work efficiency then. He took the opportunity to ask one of the officers onboard a friendly visit USN ship on its VLS launchers and cells.
The US side replied to him the advantage and attractive of a VLS vs armed launched missiles and angled launchers. Another scenario being described to him is that a straight travelling warship with VLS could fire at any hostile threats regardless of directions while an angled launcher ship might need to adjust its direction before it could fire to neutralize a threat. An arm-launcher needs to load and reload whereas VLS could fire upon orders are received.
Another advantage of VLS is that its missile cells are “vacuum sealed” under control to ensure proper temperature and humidity is kept as well as away from salty atmosphere at sea. Therefore its operational status is kept under a uniformed control. Since it is sealed, the missile is kept away from moisture. Prof ZZZ also shares that he had served in a missile force before, every week the missiles had to be tested for reliability and operation readiness. Every launch had to go through lots of tests as compared to a sealed missile cell.
Next he replies how the US officials explained to them how does a VLS launches a missile. Next ZZZ asked whether was it 48 missile cells according to the data he read, however there was only to be 44 missile. Cranes were stored inside one of the rows of 4 covers. The functions of VLS and its cells impressed ZZZ and those presented that time.
Third cutscene shows us some of the predecessing cases of warships re-fitted with VLS. One example is the Naresuan class frigate which is basically a modified version of Chinese-made Type 053 frigate. The two HTMS warships HTMS Naresuan and HTMS Taksin, were refitted (should be in 2011) with a set of 8 cell Mk 41 each. Next some specs of Naresuan class are shown.
The second example of foreign ships refitted with VLS is the Canadian Navy’s Halifax class frigates (needs confirmation) with Mk 48.
A typical Chinese VLS onboard a Type 054A FFG
Continues below...
The PLAN Sovs, as compared to modern ddgs are significantly lacking the AA capabilities despite having the older Shtil AA missile systems. The Sovs are designed in the 80s with an emphasis on Antiship role hence its supersonic Sunburn missiles. Its AA capabilities included a single arm launcher with 48 AA missiles front and aft. Its C&C systems can guide 12 missiles to track 6 hostile air threats.
But having entered the 21st century, the single arm Shtil could have much difficulties facing air and saturated attacks from air. The firing rate at 12s per launch is inefficient in neutralizing air threats. As such, reports said that enhancing a Sovs’ AA capability is one of the main tasks in the current upgrading project.
Next, host asks Prof ZZZ what is the main attractions of a VLS? ZZZ answers that it is a system that forms a core component since its introduction. In the past around 1980s, the PLAN was still using Type 051 ddgs, with traditional guns and angled launchers for Anti-ship missiles. While he was serving the PLAN, he read an English article regarding VLS being fitted on USN ships. He wondered how does it worked and the depth of its system with the missile length. He was quite curious on its work rate and work efficiency then. He took the opportunity to ask one of the officers onboard a friendly visit USN ship on its VLS launchers and cells.
The US side replied to him the advantage and attractive of a VLS vs armed launched missiles and angled launchers. Another scenario being described to him is that a straight travelling warship with VLS could fire at any hostile threats regardless of directions while an angled launcher ship might need to adjust its direction before it could fire to neutralize a threat. An arm-launcher needs to load and reload whereas VLS could fire upon orders are received.
Another advantage of VLS is that its missile cells are “vacuum sealed” under control to ensure proper temperature and humidity is kept as well as away from salty atmosphere at sea. Therefore its operational status is kept under a uniformed control. Since it is sealed, the missile is kept away from moisture. Prof ZZZ also shares that he had served in a missile force before, every week the missiles had to be tested for reliability and operation readiness. Every launch had to go through lots of tests as compared to a sealed missile cell.
Next he replies how the US officials explained to them how does a VLS launches a missile. Next ZZZ asked whether was it 48 missile cells according to the data he read, however there was only to be 44 missile. Cranes were stored inside one of the rows of 4 covers. The functions of VLS and its cells impressed ZZZ and those presented that time.
Third cutscene shows us some of the predecessing cases of warships re-fitted with VLS. One example is the Naresuan class frigate which is basically a modified version of Chinese-made Type 053 frigate. The two HTMS warships HTMS Naresuan and HTMS Taksin, were refitted (should be in 2011) with a set of 8 cell Mk 41 each. Next some specs of Naresuan class are shown.
The second example of foreign ships refitted with VLS is the Canadian Navy’s Halifax class frigates (needs confirmation) with Mk 48.
A typical Chinese VLS onboard a Type 054A FFG
Continues below...
FarkTypeSoldier
Junior Member
Continues from above...
Prof ZZZ explains the reason to sell Thai Navy the Chinese ships but later installed the US made MK 41 VLS. Prof ZZZ feels that as a military ally to US, the Thai Navy feels that it needs to incorporate US made systems into their Naresuan class. Sea sparrow missiles are common in US led NATO countries; hence one of the reasons is to enhance greater military co-operations between US and Thailand during their exercises.
Next cutscene is the usual history of the PLAN Sov. (I skip this part to 26:19). Hosts then asks Prof ZZZ how does he feel on foreign navies’ interested in PLAN Sovs. ZZZ answers that in his opinion, he thinks that PLAN should be proud of the attention given. Next the original intentions of buying the Sovs are shared.
Fifth cutscene shows the slowly obsolete-ness of a SOv as compared to the modern DDGs PLAN possessed. (I skip again as some of the questions and comments were shared previously, now to 33:39)
Prof ZZZ shares that the speculations on the 4 PLAN Sovs are deviated. Many fans think that a Sov is a multi-role vessel. People tend to relate Sovs as a Type 052D if they were to think a Sov is a multi-role ship. Prof ZZZ thinks its primary role will not change. He is more interested in knowing whether the Sovs would be fitted with land attack cruise missiles because he thinks that PLAN Sovs have the qualifications (spaces) to fit the cruise missiles if the VLS were to be refitted to the Sovs. Also this is an area of enhancement for the Sovs warships. However, he stresses that the primary role should be unchanged, rather to be upgraded to serve a better attack mission / role; the rest of the upgrades such as CIWS, AA missiles radars are enhancements to current setups.
Sixth cutscene shows some of the current ddgs being upgraded. Again this is covered. So I skip to 40:30.
When asked about his opinion on modernizing old warships to modernized warships, Prof ZZZ reckons that one should not solely focus on new equipment. It is good to have new equipment, but money talks ultimately. Upgrading is a method to modernize an old ship. He made a calculation on a country’s military strength / equipment distribution which includes US and Russia; providing a pyramid as a metaphor.
On top of the pyramid, is top military equipment which serves a country for less than 10 years is about 5% to 10% of the total country’s military . This sum is far lower than those on the bottom. This 5% to 10% are top equipment which is being covered by media. Those on the bottom of the pyramid are equipment which usually served the military for more than few decades, eg: B-52 & A-10, forms the base of the country’s strength. Those which are more than 10 years media usually not covered since they were once limelight of that nation.
Those equipment which sits in center of the pyramid forms the core of the country’s force, usually serves the country for 10 to 20 years. The PLAN Sovs are examples of such equipment. When modernized or upgraded, these group from the center of the pyramid in turn goes up to the top of the pyramid, again. The modernized weapon goes top again because of its enhancements and upgrades, it may not be an increased in quantity, but the quality of this equipment are enhanced. Prof ZZZ concludes by stating enhancements and upgrades are ways and means to boost an equipment’s strength.
No.136 Hangzhou firing its Sunburn missile
Prof ZZZ explains the reason to sell Thai Navy the Chinese ships but later installed the US made MK 41 VLS. Prof ZZZ feels that as a military ally to US, the Thai Navy feels that it needs to incorporate US made systems into their Naresuan class. Sea sparrow missiles are common in US led NATO countries; hence one of the reasons is to enhance greater military co-operations between US and Thailand during their exercises.
Next cutscene is the usual history of the PLAN Sov. (I skip this part to 26:19). Hosts then asks Prof ZZZ how does he feel on foreign navies’ interested in PLAN Sovs. ZZZ answers that in his opinion, he thinks that PLAN should be proud of the attention given. Next the original intentions of buying the Sovs are shared.
Fifth cutscene shows the slowly obsolete-ness of a SOv as compared to the modern DDGs PLAN possessed. (I skip again as some of the questions and comments were shared previously, now to 33:39)
Prof ZZZ shares that the speculations on the 4 PLAN Sovs are deviated. Many fans think that a Sov is a multi-role vessel. People tend to relate Sovs as a Type 052D if they were to think a Sov is a multi-role ship. Prof ZZZ thinks its primary role will not change. He is more interested in knowing whether the Sovs would be fitted with land attack cruise missiles because he thinks that PLAN Sovs have the qualifications (spaces) to fit the cruise missiles if the VLS were to be refitted to the Sovs. Also this is an area of enhancement for the Sovs warships. However, he stresses that the primary role should be unchanged, rather to be upgraded to serve a better attack mission / role; the rest of the upgrades such as CIWS, AA missiles radars are enhancements to current setups.
Sixth cutscene shows some of the current ddgs being upgraded. Again this is covered. So I skip to 40:30.
When asked about his opinion on modernizing old warships to modernized warships, Prof ZZZ reckons that one should not solely focus on new equipment. It is good to have new equipment, but money talks ultimately. Upgrading is a method to modernize an old ship. He made a calculation on a country’s military strength / equipment distribution which includes US and Russia; providing a pyramid as a metaphor.
On top of the pyramid, is top military equipment which serves a country for less than 10 years is about 5% to 10% of the total country’s military . This sum is far lower than those on the bottom. This 5% to 10% are top equipment which is being covered by media. Those on the bottom of the pyramid are equipment which usually served the military for more than few decades, eg: B-52 & A-10, forms the base of the country’s strength. Those which are more than 10 years media usually not covered since they were once limelight of that nation.
Those equipment which sits in center of the pyramid forms the core of the country’s force, usually serves the country for 10 to 20 years. The PLAN Sovs are examples of such equipment. When modernized or upgraded, these group from the center of the pyramid in turn goes up to the top of the pyramid, again. The modernized weapon goes top again because of its enhancements and upgrades, it may not be an increased in quantity, but the quality of this equipment are enhanced. Prof ZZZ concludes by stating enhancements and upgrades are ways and means to boost an equipment’s strength.
No.136 Hangzhou firing its Sunburn missile
GREAT pic that.Continues...
A typical Chinese VLS onboard a Type 054A FFG
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Continues from above...
Prof ZZZ explains the reason to sell Thai Navy the Chinese ships but later installed the US made MK 41 VLS. Prof ZZZ feels that as a military ally to US, the Thai Navy feels that it needs to incorporate US made systems into their Naresuan class. Sea sparrow missiles are common in US led NATO countries; hence one of the reasons is to enhance greater military co-operations between US and Thailand during their exercises.
Next cutscene is the usual history of the PLAN Sov. (I skip this part to 26:19). Hosts then asks Prof ZZZ how does he feel on foreign navies’ interested in PLAN Sovs. ZZZ answers that in his opinion, he thinks that PLAN should be proud of the attention given. Next the original intentions of buying the Sovs are shared.
Fifth cutscene shows the slowly obsolete-ness of a SOv as compared to the modern DDGs PLAN possessed. (I skip again as some of the questions and comments were shared previously, now to 33:39)
Prof ZZZ shares that the speculations on the 4 PLAN Sovs are deviated. Many fans think that a Sov is a multi-role vessel. People tend to relate Sovs as a Type 052D if they were to think a Sov is a multi-role ship. Prof ZZZ thinks its primary role will not change. He is more interested in knowing whether the Sovs would be fitted with land attack cruise missiles because he thinks that PLAN Sovs have the qualifications (spaces) to fit the cruise missiles if the VLS were to be refitted to the Sovs. Also this is an area of enhancement for the Sovs warships. However, he stresses that the primary role should be unchanged, rather to be upgraded to serve a better attack mission / role; the rest of the upgrades such as CIWS, AA missiles radars are enhancements to current setups.
Sixth cutscene shows some of the current ddgs being upgraded. Again this is covered. So I skip to 40:30.
When asked about his opinion on modernizing old warships to modernized warships, Prof ZZZ reckons that one should not solely focus on new equipment. It is good to have new equipment, but money talks ultimately. Upgrading is a method to modernize an old ship. He made a calculation on a country’s military strength / equipment distribution which includes US and Russia; providing a pyramid as a metaphor.
On top of the pyramid, is top military equipment which serves a country for less than 10 years is about 5% to 10% of the total country’s military . This sum is far lower than those on the bottom. This 5% to 10% are top equipment which is being covered by media. Those on the bottom of the pyramid are equipment which usually served the military for more than few decades, eg: B-52 & A-10, forms the base of the country’s strength. Those which are more than 10 years media usually not covered since they were once limelight of that nation.
Those equipment which sits in center of the pyramid forms the core of the country’s force, usually serves the country for 10 to 20 years. The PLAN Sovs are examples of such equipment. When modernized or upgraded, these group from the center of the pyramid in turn goes up to the top of the pyramid, again. The modernized weapon goes top again because of its enhancements and upgrades, it may not be an increased in quantity, but the quality of this equipment are enhanced. Prof ZZZ concludes by stating enhancements and upgrades are ways and means to boost an equipment’s strength.
No.136 Hangzhou firing its Sunburn missile
Some folks in the USN calls that the carrier killer.
The SS-N 22 and her sister variants are all very serious ashm and garonteee to ensure that you and your shipmates will have a very very bad day if it reached out and touched you.
