joshuatree
Captain
That's what some article said, not sure how credible it may be.
PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)
- Thread starter lilzz
- Start date
That's what some article said, not sure how credible it may be.
antiterror13
Brigadier
Trust me the Chinese know what they are doing in reclamation, they have extensive experiences and many successful projects in much larger scale
We are not likely to know what went on before what is shown in the following video that may have provoked the Chinese. But this is what happened in the South China Sea last month when a couple of Veitnames fishing vessels came too close to a Chinese operation:
[video=youtube;3mkiTkMVemM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mkiTkMVemM[/video]
Let's take a hard look at several of the frames of the video itself.
From the video, you cannot see any appreciably smaller Chinese vessel near the Vietnamese vessel. In the two pics that follow, you can clearly see another vessel behind the Vietnamese vessel...which may or may not be Chinese. However, in the second picture, it is clear that this vessel, whomever it may belong to, is actually larger than the Vietnamese vessel. The Vietnamese vessel could have been harassing that vessel, we simply do not know. But the differences in size between those two tells you that the Vietnamese vessel was not a mortal hazard to that other vessel. That is clearly not the case with the size differential in what was chasing the Vietnamese vessel down.
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What you do see, and what is unquestionable, is that for whatever reason the much larger Chinese vessel chases down the smaller Vietnamese vessel, And it does not at all try and intercede itself between the two vessels. No, it is on the near side of the Vietnamese vessel, overtaking it. Why? It shows us. It very intentionally turns into the Vietnamese vessel. Anyone who has been at sea will know what that will do, when a larger displacement vessel turns into the side of a smaller vessel. Its simple physics.
The Chinese vessel does this once, and then, catches up, and does so again. Except the next time, it drives further abreast of the Vietnamese vessel, so as to get better leverage. This time, they are able to turn into it the Vietrnamese vessel far enough forward to use their own displacement to force the smaller ship across their bow and seriously impact it amidships.
The reesult is a fairly forgone conclusion.
The larger Chinese ship intentionally sank the smaller Vietnamese ship. It is clear that it intended to force the smaller ship across its bows because it repeatedly attempted just that and did not cease until it had accomplished it.
In the end, it appears that many vessels stood by to help the Vietnamese sailors who were put into the sea as a result.
IMHO, unless that Vietnamese vessel had done something similarly life-threatening to a Chinese vessel or structure, there was no excuse for what happened here. Even if the Vietnamese ship was near a Chinese oil rig. Even if they harassed a Chinese vessel...unbless of course they tried something similar and put chinese lives at risk.
As stated, that larger Chinese vessel clearly did not simply intercede and place itself between the Vietnamese vessel and the other vessel behind it. It was on the wrong side of the Vietnamese vessel to do that. No, it clearly meant to hit, and turn the Vietnamese vessel.
It is clear that the larger Chinese vessel, for whatever reasons, chased down the smaller Vietnamese vessel on the high seas...which was clearly attempting to flee...and it turned into that vessel and pushed it across its own bow...and sank it.
As I say, we do not know the provocation...but that is clearly what happened, and, IMHO, it cannot be sugar-coated by anything on that video.
[video=youtube;3mkiTkMVemM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mkiTkMVemM[/video]
Let's take a hard look at several of the frames of the video itself.
From the video, you cannot see any appreciably smaller Chinese vessel near the Vietnamese vessel. In the two pics that follow, you can clearly see another vessel behind the Vietnamese vessel...which may or may not be Chinese. However, in the second picture, it is clear that this vessel, whomever it may belong to, is actually larger than the Vietnamese vessel. The Vietnamese vessel could have been harassing that vessel, we simply do not know. But the differences in size between those two tells you that the Vietnamese vessel was not a mortal hazard to that other vessel. That is clearly not the case with the size differential in what was chasing the Vietnamese vessel down.
What you do see, and what is unquestionable, is that for whatever reason the much larger Chinese vessel chases down the smaller Vietnamese vessel, And it does not at all try and intercede itself between the two vessels. No, it is on the near side of the Vietnamese vessel, overtaking it. Why? It shows us. It very intentionally turns into the Vietnamese vessel. Anyone who has been at sea will know what that will do, when a larger displacement vessel turns into the side of a smaller vessel. Its simple physics.
The Chinese vessel does this once, and then, catches up, and does so again. Except the next time, it drives further abreast of the Vietnamese vessel, so as to get better leverage. This time, they are able to turn into it the Vietrnamese vessel far enough forward to use their own displacement to force the smaller ship across their bow and seriously impact it amidships.
The reesult is a fairly forgone conclusion.
The larger Chinese ship intentionally sank the smaller Vietnamese ship. It is clear that it intended to force the smaller ship across its bows because it repeatedly attempted just that and did not cease until it had accomplished it.
In the end, it appears that many vessels stood by to help the Vietnamese sailors who were put into the sea as a result.
IMHO, unless that Vietnamese vessel had done something similarly life-threatening to a Chinese vessel or structure, there was no excuse for what happened here. Even if the Vietnamese ship was near a Chinese oil rig. Even if they harassed a Chinese vessel...unbless of course they tried something similar and put chinese lives at risk.
As stated, that larger Chinese vessel clearly did not simply intercede and place itself between the Vietnamese vessel and the other vessel behind it. It was on the wrong side of the Vietnamese vessel to do that. No, it clearly meant to hit, and turn the Vietnamese vessel.
It is clear that the larger Chinese vessel, for whatever reasons, chased down the smaller Vietnamese vessel on the high seas...which was clearly attempting to flee...and it turned into that vessel and pushed it across its own bow...and sank it.
As I say, we do not know the provocation...but that is clearly what happened, and, IMHO, it cannot be sugar-coated by anything on that video.
Blackstone
Brigadier
You lost me. What does Vietnam's weapons of mass destruction (chemical, I presume?) have to do with paramilitary "fishing" boats crashing into each other in the South China Sea?
I don't think I am.
China IMHO would be making a big mistake to wantonly and cavalierly say...if you come near to us, despite your claims, and despite you trying to protest, we are going to ram and sink you.
Such an attitude flaunts international law, and it wil cause the other nations watching...Singapore, the Philippines, Malaysia, Japan, Australia, and ultimately the US to all understandably ally together and oppose such actions.
I do not think that this is what China wants.
If China has evididence of Vietnam attempting to sabotage their operations, or to not just protest, but to imperil the life of Chinese workers or personnel...then they need to present it.
Right now the only evidence being presented is a video Vietnam took that clearly shows a larger Chinese vessel chasing down a smaller Vietnamesee vessel that is trying to get away, catching it, ramming it, and sinking it.
If that stands with no evidence that would warrant such an action...China is going to lose the arguement on the international stage and lead to people wanting to band together to stop such behavior.
i think the nations of that area knows all too well just what is going on and that's why most remain neutral or silent. this is the first Chinese oil rig they sent there while the viets have numerous in that area (in disputed waters) and the viets had to stop them. all this activity was started because of HYSY 981 moving into that area. this is not any innocent incident but a move by Vietnam to stop Chinese drilling because if there is HYSY 981 will there be 982, 983 or 9810? there will be more boat ramming by fishing vessels and coast guard vessels we can be sure of that.
Most of the nation's in and around the South China Sea remain silent because they have little choice. Their navy's and coast guards have no chance against China's. Their economies are to a very large part tied to trade with China. China claims it does not seek to have 'hegemony' over its neighbors, but its actions prove otherwise.
China's claims over 90% of the South China Sea have no more validity than any one else's. Using China's argument of having discovered and/or administered the disputed territories generations ago, then most if not all of China would belong to the Mongols, most of the middle Europe would belong to either the Greeks, Huns, Mongols, Romans, Visigoths and so on because they once ruled those territories for generations.
China's positioning of the oil rig in Vietnam's claimed EEZ is nothing more than a flagrant violation of international norms and an attempt to seek the hegemony over its regional neighbors. Might does not make right unless of course you are China.
China's claims over 90% of the South China Sea have no more validity than any one else's. Using China's argument of having discovered and/or administered the disputed territories generations ago, then most if not all of China would belong to the Mongols, most of the middle Europe would belong to either the Greeks, Huns, Mongols, Romans, Visigoths and so on because they once ruled those territories for generations.
China's positioning of the oil rig in Vietnam's claimed EEZ is nothing more than a flagrant violation of international norms and an attempt to seek the hegemony over its regional neighbors. Might does not make right unless of course you are China.