PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

joshuatree said:

Oh quite a few other govts and states have their share of hypocrisies, finding itself at a loss in explaining its actions, resorting to statements of anger at others, having their own surrogate fanbois, etc.
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Such a statement as nfgc said is offering excuses. It is a logical fallacy of two wrongs make a right. The overall problem IMO with China (in contrast to so called other govts) is that it wants to present and project itself as a leader at least in the SCS and surrounding areas. If you want to lead you better explain the nature of your actions, the basis and how that apply to the rest of the community (and not only China). Simply expressing anger to opposition is not a sign of strength but weakness in that it can't even defend or bother to defend its own actions. Such behaviour projects an image of a bully, a trait I don't believe is any endearment to rope in followers.

Brumby said:

Such a statement as nfgc said is offering excuses. It is a logical fallacy of two wrongs make a right. The overall problem IMO with China (in contrast to so called other govts) is that it wants to present and project itself as a leader at least in the SCS and surrounding areas. If you want to lead you better explain the nature of your actions, the basis and how that apply to the rest of the community (and not only China). Simply expressing anger to opposition is not a sign of strength but weakness in that it can't even defend or bother to defend its own actions. Such behaviour projects an image of a bully, a trait I don't believe is any endearment to rope in followers.

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I thought China just want their land back? Why is it that other's insist China to do otherwise? Simply trying to paint China as the "bully" won't change the fact that those SCS islands belongs to her in the first place.

Equation said:

I thought China just want their land back? Why is it that other's insist China to do otherwise? Simply trying to paint China as the "bully" won't change the fact that those SCS islands belongs to her in the first place.

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Good point. When was those land ever under China's jurisdiction? If you have a case, present the facts. Resorting to "indisputable" doesn't cut it.

Brumby said:

Good point. When was those land ever under China's jurisdiction? If you have a case, present the facts. Resorting to "indisputable" doesn't cut it.

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I'm sure long before any of those ASEAN nations that claimed it was ever created. You got any proof that it doesn't belong to China? I thought so.

Equation said:

I'm sure long before any of those ASEAN nations that claimed it was ever created. You got any proof that it doesn't belong to China? I thought so.

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China is making the claim and so isn't it obvious as a claimant it has to present its case? Are you suggesting that logic and reason simply doesn't apply because it is China and somehow it has special status and fiat will do?

It's just like how the US used its economic global power to kill France's Mistral deal with Russia. The US used a domestic American law not an international law to fine BNP Paribas a billion dollars to pressure France into killing the deal with Russia. It totally circumvented international institutions that would deal with this kind of dispute. Why didn't France go through those avenues? It's because it was a shot across the bow that the US can use many economic measures to punish France because that's the kind of power the US had in its disposal. The US didn't need any UN or international institutions to get what it wants. The US could use their power against China if it wanted but their are consequences because of China's part in making corporate America rich and in the whole world economy. So the US bullies lesser countries just like is accused of China... and without involving the UN.

Brumby said:

China is making the claim and so isn't it obvious as a claimant it has to present its case? Are you suggesting that logic and reason simply doesn't apply because it is China and somehow it has special status and fiat will do?

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Logic and reason says that since China has been doing activities along those islands far longer than anyone else (among today's ASEAN neighbors) therefore it belongs to China. Are you going to disclaim history as evidence?

Equation said:

Logic and reason says that since China has been doing activities along those islands far longer than anyone else (among today's ASEAN neighbors) therefore it belongs to China. Are you going to disclaim history as evidence?

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I deal with facts. How about some facts to back your activities claim?

Brumby said:

I deal with facts. How about some facts to back your activities claim?

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You realize they have a whole museum dedicated to just such activities? China has been plying these waters since before any of the other claimant nations, with the possible exception of Vietnam, has even existed.

Brumby said:

I deal with facts. How about some facts to back your activities claim?

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But history is FACTS, I don't know what you're trying to dismiss. History and logic dictates that China has been doing activities far longer than any of the other SCS claimants, therefore it's rightfully belongs to her. The more those that disclaim history of China the more they are wrong and deep down they know it. It's ALL about legitimacy and China has far more legitimacy claim than the other claimants as well.