PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

joshuatree

Captain
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

I think you might have the wrong emphasis on point 3. The Diaoyu islands are uninhabited excepted for some wild goats, yet no one disputes that they would grant the owners an EEZ, the dispute is on who actually owns the islands. Same thing with Scarborough Shoal, only there aren't even goats there.

I think the 3rd point is a definition of what would be considered a rock, as opposed to an island. An island would grant EEZ status to the owning country regardless of whether it is inhabited of not, whereas a rock that "cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf".

Diaoyu had a bonito processing plant in the past. You're right that what defines island and what defines rock is left rather ambiguous by UNCLOS.



I wonder what sort of forces these will be? Surely marines or other Amphibious troops .

Agreed on marines. Perhaps a flight of fighter planes? That would enable a quick response if needed at the other outposts down south.
 

hmmwv

Junior Member
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

Don't forget Fiery Cross Reef, one of the most important PLAN base in SCS.

1342351502_93717.jpg1342585712732_775.jpg1260093542915.jpg
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

Agreed on marines. Perhaps a flight of fighter planes? That would enable a quick response if needed at the other outposts down south.

Marines would be obvious choice, and I think the significantly expanded harbor facilities would also indicate the possibility of a significant naval presence. They may even base a few of the new 056s there in a few years after they start coming online in numbers.

The airport facilities have been expanded, but not by much. Woody island lies in typhoon territory, meaning if you want to permanently base fighters there, you need to construct hardened shelters to protect the fighters from periodic storms and also from te elements. That would be particular important here because of Typhoons and also the close proximity of the run way to the waters edge. Leave fighters out in the open there and corrosion will get them even if a storm doesn't.

The island can and will be used as a refuelling and rearming post for fighters, and would greatly expand their range and endurance and fighters could easily be forward based there for short periods if tensions spike. But right now, there is simply no need to permanently deploy fighters there, nor have the necessary preparations been done to allow that to happen. Deploying fighters there would only serve to needlessly heighten tensions, and would actually place those fighters at greater risk as they would be far closer to potential enemies; the airfield would not be protect anywhere like as one on the mainland; and unless they build a big new radar station on the island, they would not have anywhere close to the warning time they would have on the mainland if someone decided to launch a surprise attack.

Fighters are just not needed there at present and would be a waste and placed unnecessarily in harms way if you do base them there. If the island is ever to get a permanent aviation detachment, helicopters would be far more useful and cause far less tensions.
 

Geographer

Junior Member
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

Hmmwv, thank you very much for posting those pictures! This the first I've heard of the base. Do you have any more pictures of it? I would love to see any pictures of China's outposts and bases in the South China Sea.
 

Kurt

Junior Member
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

Does this summarize the Chinese perspective?
 

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joshuatree

Captain
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

Marines would be obvious choice, and I think the significantly expanded harbor facilities would also indicate the possibility of a significant naval presence. They may even base a few of the new 056s there in a few years after they start coming online in numbers.

The airport facilities have been expanded, but not by much. Woody island lies in typhoon territory, meaning if you want to permanently base fighters there, you need to construct hardened shelters to protect the fighters from periodic storms and also from te elements. That would be particular important here because of Typhoons and also the close proximity of the run way to the waters edge. Leave fighters out in the open there and corrosion will get them even if a storm doesn't.

The island can and will be used as a refuelling and rearming post for fighters, and would greatly expand their range and endurance and fighters could easily be forward based there for short periods if tensions spike. But right now, there is simply no need to permanently deploy fighters there, nor have the necessary preparations been done to allow that to happen. Deploying fighters there would only serve to needlessly heighten tensions, and would actually place those fighters at greater risk as they would be far closer to potential enemies; the airfield would not be protect anywhere like as one on the mainland; and unless they build a big new radar station on the island, they would not have anywhere close to the warning time they would have on the mainland if someone decided to launch a surprise attack.

Fighters are just not needed there at present and would be a waste and placed unnecessarily in harms way if you do base them there. If the island is ever to get a permanent aviation detachment, helicopters would be far more useful and cause far less tensions.


I understand your POV but I would say hardened shelters aren't needed if fighters are flown out ahead of an incoming typhoon/storm. Considering the proclamation of establishing a garrison under the command of Sansha, I think heightened tensions were already accounted for. Unless the other claimants want to strike first and iniate a skirmish, stationing fighters will be no different than stationing an 056. But I do see a need considering others have already conducted air patrols and claim they will be on a regular basis. To fly a fighter to Woody Island, then to refuel to patrol complicates the process. Or if refueling is skipped, patrol range is greatly shortened. Knowing there's a 056 plus a few fighers will make others think twice before encroaching. Regarding the elements, I consider that as part of the price to forward deploy. Besides, it will bring back invaluable experience in how to maintain gear in harsh salty environments, whether just to improve on maintenance procedures or in developing future hardware. I think there already is a large radar on the island. Rocky Island already has a SIGINT station on it. If the concern is surprise attack, SAM installations would help.
 

Lezt

Junior Member
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

I think you might have the wrong emphasis on point 3. The Diaoyu islands are uninhabited excepted for some wild goats, yet no one disputes that they would grant the owners an EEZ, the dispute is on who actually owns the islands. Same thing with Scarborough Shoal, only there aren't even goats there.

I think the 3rd point is a definition of what would be considered a rock, as opposed to an island. An island would grant EEZ status to the owning country regardless of whether it is inhabited of not, whereas a rock that "cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf".

Remember if we are talking about the terms only,

the clause say an island CAN sustain human life, it doesn't mean that there must be human life there.

So technically, any rock/island which you can build a shelter on and have some fisherman use it as their base, then it is for all intent and purposes an island. Now, do you need the shelter and the fishing boat to built with local material on the "island" to satisfy the sustain human life part is open to debate.
 

Geographer

Junior Member
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

What's going on with this small island in the Paracel Islands? It's 219 meters long and 108 meters wide. It looks like they're dredging out the middle of it which is the opposite of what China is doing on most islands, expanding them and dredging out only a small canal in the surrounding reef for ships to reach land. This picture, like most of the Paracel and Spratly Islands, is from 2005. I would love to get recent photographs of all the islands!

Paracel Islands.jpg
 

joshuatree

Captain
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

What's going on with this small island in the Paracel Islands? It's 219 meters long and 108 meters wide. It looks like they're dredging out the middle of it which is the opposite of what China is doing on most islands, expanding them and dredging out only a small canal in the surrounding reef for ships to reach land. This picture, like most of the Paracel and Spratly Islands, is from 2005. I would love to get recent photographs of all the islands!

Guessing shelter for fishing boats?
 

no_name

Colonel
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?

You mean like when the fisherman dock within the ring of land they are considered on Chinese territory?
 
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