PLAN invited to participate in RIMPAC for first the time (2014)

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

MwRYum said:

When what the US is doing right now is pointing a very big gun at China and expect a white flag in return, have China to extend an olive branch is pointless if not stupid. That said, current Sino-US relationship isn't in the level that China should join such an exercise, else the US government won't realise the gravity of situation in East Asia right now.

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This is what Japan wanted, this is what Philippine or other countries that have dispute with China wanted. To throw the spanner into a better China-US relation. We should realised there are parties that want to poison this relationship..

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

port_08 said:

Those issues are separate and disputes that can be solve if both party willing to sit down and discuss. Give it time, when rational and cooler heads prevail. It's not an unsolvable problem.

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They're unsolvable problem because nobody could or willing to walk away with anything less than "100% of shares". There's no win-win solution on the horizon. Territorial disputes was, is and always will be, solved at the tip of bayonets.

"Understanding", is just a fancy way saying "know your enemy". Obama Administration has made it very clear that China is the enemy in the West Point graduation speech earlier, so no need to suger coat it anymore.

That's why I say it's a waste of time, because the RIMPAC exercise scenarios China get to take part has next to no relevance to the upcoming war.

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

MwRYum said:

When what the US is doing right now is pointing a very big gun at China and expect a white flag in return, have China to extend an olive branch is pointless if not stupid. That said, current Sino-US relationship isn't in the level that China should join such an exercise, else the US government won't realise the gravity of situation in East Asia right now.

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The US isn't trying to make China raise the white flag, quite to the contrary. In reality, the US is doing what she can to both reassure allies by talking tough to China, while at the same time not too tough so Chinese leaders wouldn't have to escalate to placate their own citizens' nationalism run amok. The US and China should take every opportunity to work things out, and RIMPAC is as good a venue as any. Maybe China could start its own Indo-Pacific naval exercise and invite the US, ROK, Singapore, Pakistan, India, Russia, Australia, and the rest of ASEAN and South Asia countries.

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

MwRYum said:

They're unsolvable problem because nobody could or willing to walk away with anything less than "100% of shares". There's no win-win solution on the horizon. Territorial disputes was, is and always will be, solved at the tip of bayonets.

"Understanding", is just a fancy way saying "know your enemy". Obama Administration has made it very clear that China is the enemy in the West Point graduation speech earlier, so no need to suger coat it anymore.

That's why I say it's a waste of time, because the RIMPAC exercise scenarios China get to take part has next to no relevance to the upcoming war.

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Don't be so damn impatient for a war with the US, because, quite frankly, China simply isn't up to it. If China starts a shooting war with the US tomorrow, the result would be worse than 1895. Bank on it! So knock off framing America as the problem, and focus on China's real enemy- JAPAN!

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

Blackstone said:

Don't be so damn impatient for a war with the US, because, quite frankly, China simply isn't up to it. If China starts a shooting war with the US tomorrow, the result would be worse than 1895. Bank on it! So knock off framing America as the problem, and focus on China's real enemy- JAPAN!

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I think you are being a little shortsighted, because the fundamental point of friction between china and the US won't go away in the short term, and that is whether china will be able to dominate East Asia the same way the US dominated and dominates the Americas. China wants a multipolar world, America seems intent on maintaining a unipolar one.

The disagreement with Japan at this stage is merely an organ of this larger body of disagreement.

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

Blackstone said:

The US isn't trying to make China raise the white flag, quite to the contrary. In reality, the US is doing what she can to both reassure allies by talking tough to China, while at the same time not too tough so Chinese leaders wouldn't have to escalate to placate their own citizens' nationalism run amok.

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If by all the talks and deeds up to the recent West Point Graduation speech and last week's Shangri-La Dialogue, the US did the first bit and failed miserably on the second bit. And it's either look like the US not realizing it, or that's exactly according to plan.

Blackstone said:

Don't be so damn impatient for a war with the US, because, quite frankly, China simply isn't up to it.

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Exactly, it's no secret that the US wants to engineer China's capitulation through warfare.

Which is why China should make things clear by pull out of the RIMPAC exercise in protest.

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

Bltizo said:

I think you are being a little shortsighted, because the fundamental point of friction between china and the US won't go away in the short term, and that is whether china will be able to dominate East Asia the same way the US dominated and dominates the Americas. China wants a multipolar world, America seems intent on maintaining a unipolar one.

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You're right on fundamental friction between China and the US not going away in the short-run, but China doesn't need to battle the US to resolver its East China Sea security problems. I say that because Taiwan is the geographic key in Western Pacific for China, and with the province, China solves its ECS security dilemma.

The South China Sea is actually China's Caribbean, and not the East China Sea. By controlling it, China links the Western Pacific with the Indian Ocean and become one of the few continental great powers in human history to also be a maritime great power.

The disagreement with Japan at this stage is merely an organ of this larger body of disagreement.

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It's probably hard for peoples not in the immediate NE Asia area to understand the depth of loathing Chinese and Koreans have for the non-repentant Japan. What we're seeing today in NE Asia is another chapter in Sino-Japanese-Korean history over the last 1,500 years (or so), because the third Sino-Japanese war (1894-1895) never truly ended, and there was a lull from 1945 to a few years ago. And now, the interlude is ending and both sides are preparing for what comes next.

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

MwRYum said:

Exactly, it's no secret that the US wants to engineer China's capitulation through warfare.

Which is why China should make things clear by pull out of the RIMPAC exercise in protest.

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I don't think the US is actively hoping for war, but I do believe that US strategists are starting to believe that their only remaining advantage against China is their military.

Re: PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list

MwRYum said:

If by all the talks and deeds up to the recent West Point Graduation speech and last week's Shangri-La Dialogue, the US did the first bit and failed miserably on the second bit. And it's either look like the US not realizing it, or that's exactly according to plan.

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America's plan is to walk a fine line between engaging China and reassuring her nervous neighbors, and no one is making the thankless task easy; not China, not Japan, not Vietnam, not the Philippines, and not hawks on all sides of the issue. On balance, US has done as good a job keeping the powder keg from exploding as one could reasonably expect.

Exactly, it's no secret that the US wants to engineer China's capitulation through warfare.

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Your comment is unsupportable by facts or reason. To make China 'capitulate through warfare' means an all out war that else would make WWII look tame by comparison. Even if there are a few crazy people on all sides to want that course of action, there are far more adults on hand to babysit them.

Which is why China should make things clear by pull out of the RIMPAC exercise in protest.

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China has made it clear beyond all doubt she's not happy with recent American comments vis-a-vis ECS and SCS, so what else could be gained by pulling out of RIMPAC? Besides, operating with mutinational navies in gigantic exercises benefits the PLAN as much as anyone else.

Let's not turn this into a discussion about "evil US" tricking China into their plans.

This is a great opportunity for China to interact with other world navy. It's good for avoiding misunderstanding and building relationships. US has to support its allies in Asia. If Chinese leadership accepts that as a reality (which I think they should), then they can only gain by participating with other navy. They should expand their joint exercises with all navies. That's good for China and for world.