PLAN Fleet supply vessels

Red___Sword said:

When China in history names anything with 'beautiful' artistic names, it always implys China (the official) has not master that technology yet.

I look this way, when Qing dynasty names shore cannon artistic name 红夷大炮 Hong yi da pao, and in some cases, each cannon have its own name (they are so few), China is in deep trouble; when US names her battleship with dull name like Missouri, named after non-innovative doctrine of names, it implys she is at the way to systematic dominance of the field (in this case, navy) it dully named.

My 5 cents (hey, Chinese way of "two cents")

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Wrong.

China have laws that regulates how their vessels are named, besides using name of cities/provinces and famous landscape features are common practice in the world too, the only complaint you'd hear about such arrangement would be from those cities/states/provinces who got no ship named after them (like Montana, US, for example)...though there're people who'd prefer artistic names (like those still use by Japanese) or avatar of aspects (UK and a few of the Commonwealth nations, like Singapore).

Dull or not, however, there has been no conclusive argument...but naming after any person is always a dicey thing, political-correctness is a nasty minefield.

Red___Sword said:

When China in history names anything with 'beautiful' artistic names, it always implys China (the official) has not master that technology yet.

I look this way, when Qing dynasty names shore cannon artistic name 红夷大炮 Hong yi da pao, and in some cases, each cannon have its own name (they are so few), China is in deep trouble; when US names her battleship with dull name like Missouri, named after non-innovative doctrine of names, it implys she is at the way to systematic dominance of the field (in this case, navy) it dully named.

My 5 cents (hey, Chinese way of "two cents")

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No no no..

Dingyuan, Zhenyuan.
Chaoyong, Yangwei.

these things mean something and sounds beautiful in chinese. rather than some dull city name.

INJ/JMSDF's naming scheme for example names has mythical figures, moutains, animals. birds or mythical flying animals (carriers), ancient province names (battleships), tides (subs), etc etc. Inspirational qualities does have a utilitarian value.

i.e. said:

No no no..

Dingyuan, Zhenyuan.
Chaoyong, Yangwei.

these things mean something and sounds beautiful in chinese. rather than some dull city name.

INJ/JMSDF's naming scheme for example names has mythical figures, moutains, animals. birds or mythical flying animals (carriers), ancient province names (battleships), tides (subs), etc etc. Inspirational qualities does have a utilitarian value.

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Speaking of Japanese, looks like of all ship names (they've been using just about most of the ship names back in IJN days), they've been avoiding a few...one of the running joke is that the JMSDF seems to be avoiding the 3 "jinxed names":
* Yukikaze - while she's reputed as being "lucky" and a survivor, everytime she jinxed all her charge to their doom;
* Shigure - though her luck didn't hold out that long, but her "cursed" reputation is almost, if not at par, with Yukikaze;
* Nowaki - by record her "kill tonnage" was impressive, only they were all IJN...back in the day Nowaki was most famous for dealing out coup de grâce to non-salvageable IJN ships...

Can mystical beings or artistic names provide annual military support funds and employment assistance after sailors retirement? That's why PLAN personnel wants to be on surface combatants, only those are named after administrative entities that can provide those. Luckily some ships such as 999 Jinggangshan and 881 Hongzehu are also county-level cities despite being named after mountains and lakes.

hmmwv said:

Can mystical beings or artistic names provide annual military support funds and employment assistance after sailors retirement? That's why PLAN personnel wants to be on surface combatants, only those are named after administrative entities that can provide those. Luckily some ships such as 999 Jinggangshan and 881 Hongzehu are also county-level cities despite being named after mountains and lakes.

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and I always think that's a bad way to go about it because what if you just happen to serve on a ship that is named after a poor county or city. you are sh*t out of luck.

JInggangshang is pretty poor so is Hongzehu.

Things like benefits should get evened out.

Military service at end of the day is about ideals because no body in this day and age will put their neck on the line because of employment benefits.
and as long it is an ideal that drives the military service then one should get taken care off at least equitablly. it is the least thing they can do, in a military that it openly upheld egalitarian ideals of Mao.

i.e. said:

and I always think that's a bad way to go about it because what if you just happen to serve on a ship that is named after a poor county or city. you are sh*t out of luck.

JInggangshang is pretty poor so is Hongzehu.

Things like benefits should get evened out.

Military service at end of the day is about ideals because no body in this day and age will put their neck on the line because of employment benefits.
and as long it is an ideal that drives the military service then one should get taken care off at least equitablly. it is the least thing they can do, in a military that it openly upheld egalitarian ideals of Mao.

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I think i.e. you have had a wrong impression.

The civil local government (ie. the county) do not directly give any monetary benifit to the ship named in her honor, nor dose any civil local governmental body have a deep connection with military body (in this case, ship, ship commander, and the connected officers...) would actually looking well and benifit the county's civil govnt (it looks like plot, a would-be-treason in the making), in fact there are strict regulations on how the civil govnt's sincercy is NOT going to be taken by the military personnel.

And it gose both ways, the ship named after a certain city / county, shall not burden that respective city's civil budget, not to be compulsory at least.

I am not saying there won't be the cases when a ship is named after some rich city, and that city government find ways to bring their sincercy to the ship's service person in ways of some kind of benifit offering. But ships named after poor countys their personnel get the regulatory benifits just as the ships named after rich ones, and even a rich city shows it 拥军 (sincerly support the military in any means possible), can only do so after the MR or even CMC's endorsement, and often being made in such a way that service people coming from different places, ships, regions, get this rich city's equal benifit.

In a word, benifits all allocated - ordered to be allocated, order endorsed by respective MR or even CMC.

While you have a sense that the benifits may be inequal if not allocated by orders, the Chinese political system have long sensed far more grave danger if done inequally (plot, treason, monopoly of civil-military connected officer...), so i.e., I assure you your concerns were long being addressed.

I for one much prefer utilitarian names for ships (like the USN and PLAN does) rather than the more bombastic British or Japanese approach, in the end strength of organization is what really gives meaning to the names (USS Enterprise for example).

Yes, "utilitarian names", that's the word I was looking for.

True strength lies within a systematically functioning body, in this case, the utilitarian names that sounds dull to some people - They functions that much more systematic.

For me it is somewhat proud that the PLAN having the same way of thinking as the USN, of which they proven to be the best.

Red___Sword said:

I think i.e. you have had a wrong impression.

The civil local government (ie. the county) do not directly give any monetary benifit to the ship named in her honor, nor dose any civil local governmental body have a deep connection with military body (in this case, ship, ship commander, and the connected officers...) would actually looking well and benifit the county's civil govnt (it looks like plot, a would-be-treason in the making), in fact there are strict regulations on how the civil govnt's sincercy is NOT going to be taken by the military personnel.

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Nope, all county level and above government have annual military support funds allocated in their budget, and they contribute directly to their corresponding military units (ships named after it, or units stationed in its jurisdiction). The norms in recent years regarding frigate is that at the commissioning ceremony the city will directly contribute a minimum of CNY 1 million plus unknown number of gifts (computers, cars, etc). In fact cities do "bid" on ship names now, it's rumored that Jinan pleaded several million yuans to have its name reused on a 052C. In addition the city has legal obligation to help retired sailors of its corresponding ship to find jobs. Skilled military jobs (navy or airforce) is extremely sought after in China, people without connections (especially from rural areas) often bribe to have get their kids into PLA.

i.e. said:

Japan's modern naval tradition runs much deeper than china's. their naming scheme for ships hasn't changed since the days of late 19th/early 20th IJN days. and it is beautiful.

PLAN' scheme is rather dull for its surface combatants. IMHO even the scheme during days of Qin Imperial Navy (Beiyang/Nanyang) is better. very artistic names. They should bring back the names for these paired ships like.. Chao yong / Yang Wei/ Ding Yuan/ Zhenyuan.

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China has the naming scheme of a nation without a naval connection.