PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Roger604 · May 2, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

2 years.... just in time to show off for the Olympics.

Of course, Popeye is right in saying that it will take many more years after 2008 for the CVBG crew to be fully trained.

Maybe 2012 or so, depending on whether or not they've been training on land as jimmyttl says.

bd popeye · May 3, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

jimmyttl said:
:nana:Had anyone thought of the past carrier acquired by PLAN? It's written somewhere in this forum that the PLANAF had been using it for training its pilot for touch n go operation for quite sometime. Though the platform and design of the ship might differ, but I guess it wouldn't affect much on the quality of the pilot. Though this ship might not be operable, who knows there might be some secret training held to prepare the crew in minor operation training? Just a 2 cents though from me :roll:

Yes the Aussie carrier Melbourne was purchased by the PRC. Rumors have it that when the ship was scrapped the flight deck was reassembled on land and training is being conducted. Does anyone know for sure?

As for the training..It has to be complete. You can't peice meal it. Training the crew and the airwing together is essiental for proper operation of the ship.

Roger is correct in suggesting the carrier may be ready just in time for the Olympics. What a show by the PRC for the whole world those Olympics will be!!!.:china:

Jeff Head · May 5, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

bd popeye said:
the carrier may be ready just in time for the Olympics. What a show by the PRC for the whole world those Olympics will be!!!.:china:

Popeye, I have felt this way for a long time...that they would complete her to the point of being able to showcase her to the world during the Olympic games. Would not be surprised at all to see it happen.

If it is to be...then I expect we will see an increasing rate of work and goings on around the Varyag between now and then. I keep looking for new pics...but there haven't been any real new ones in the last several months as compared to the fairly regular new ones we saw before that. Perhpas they are clamping down even more on security? Who knows.

Jeff Head · May 5, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

bd popeye said:
So I need a translation please!

Popeye, I have a rudimantary Chinese translator. For simple phrases it is okay, but for something like this it is limited. Anyway, I ran the whole thing through that translator and here is what I came up with. Lot's missing, but some pretty interesting stuff as well (like some discussion regarding the Mig29 vs. the SU-33, etc)...also LONG!

Here it is:

Many □monthly publications "□□□□/ are especially many □obtain □the prestige news, center □first □constructs aircraft carrier department □mainly no matter what □guarantees □Nansha, because □Nansha's distance □has surpassed □□the service □□does □half □, center □□□□the strength matter □on □law □pays at this waters □fresh □simulation □matter. Moreover the aircraft carrier base □in three □, also will be allowed in the future the concurrently □□sea □matter □ Center □sea □□aircraft carrier □□group □Yu?nian 後成 □, aircraft carrier base □site Yu Da?

□□vacation tooth □□□□. □is being constructed the aircraft carrier department □□□□□position, accepts the South China Sea □□and the sea □headquarters □the heavy □□aircraft carrier base □site tooth □□ □are many □obtains □the prestige news, center □□aircraft carrier base □site Hainan □three □市牙 □□□□one □□sets up the small sea □□, is apart from □□about the brand vacation hotel □□kilometer, the so work already completes, but □□□□guards against □□the project also basically to finish, only □the capital construction □not yet officially unfolds □. The aircraft carrier base □aircraft carrier □□group □□□□position, is separated by □the kilometer to anchor □the ship □host's Yulin □port □to be higher than half □.
An aircraft carrier department □host □□at present big □shipbuilding □□line of □□disposition □the gram □"the tile good standard" □(Varyag) the aircraft carrier, □by many □□□, □by □and matches □□- 27 □. □is being transformed □a gram □aircraft carrier, □non- like outside □describes only will be in the future makes □"the target" □□□, but is has attacks □the ability □□□.

□once intended the Qia □aircraft carrier half-finished product On the other hand, center □the government □acts on behalf of □to enter the aircraft carrier "the Hong Kong business people" Xu Zengping □, the □so □□mutually wrangles "The tile good standard" □is towed by the tow-boat toward the center □on the way. □on the world □90's last stages get up, make the aircraft carrier to have fiercely □□in center □□Fang?bu □□, but the Italian □difference is very big, the sea □advocated strongly □the construction □to own aviation mother □, otherwise □the sea □□law breaks through the near coast defense □to do □; But spatial □□□because □the heart is spatial □□calculates □by □□but □the strength counter- □, pointed out the aircraft carrier already not big □□□generation of □□need, only was a □□□giant marine target, □□□□first □unfolded spatially □.

But because □year central committee □committee Vice-President Chang? □□is clear is the sea □family background, therefore, constructs sends □the support, only makes the aircraft carrier to involve occupies the great □□politics □to calculate, therefore □□clear incites the sea □scientific research □□to deliver to □□courtyard □principle Zhu?ji □considers, is captured □□the cold water, Zhu in □has considered makes written comments: "This □government does not test □□□□□.

"Thereupon center □voluntarily makes the aircraft carrier □□to abort Xu □□has □□□strength, but in □□political circle and □□some people □□□, thereupon after receives no matter what □, in center port □four □□□, altogether □□□□□Yuan people □, □□thousand □Yuan □Jin?

zi Beijing government □under □Xia?quan. The news □, □center □□Fang Tou? "the Hong Kong business people" act on behalf of □□Qia??
the □gram □aircraft carrier half-finished product □, a □aspect also has this Italy, but by person and so on Xu is passed □□□□the side powerful public figure □center anti- □, the command acts on behalf of □business to know □draws back. (chinesenewsnet.com) The so □□□□□□□is continuously unclear

Aircraft carrier department □host □□at present big □shipbuilding □□line of □□disposition □gram □"tile good standard" □aircraft carrier. But Xu Zengping also because of completes □□but □the port □entire □politics □committee □□□□□. After the aircraft carrier in a big way hauls back □, after center □the sea □scientific research person □□□research, □□may □on □match the official aviation mother in the hull base □, thereupon □the beginning secret □line has rebuilt and the disposition from □the year ago □□, □□completes the entire □aircraft carrier □□group in 2008 □to construct and the aircraft carrier base constructs □ But, center □government □Xu Zengping □□□□on □□□is continuously unclear in the so. □however is ordered to □to enter the aircraft carrier, but the aircraft carrier □□in the law □is □□constructs the company under his name, □the side takes over for use, the government must approach his company □□□. So □□how many, □side □□, but □□courtyard □politics department □□official business male □. □the news public figure to many □disclosures, Xu Zengping on the □year surface is □enters the aircraft carrier by 2,000 □US dollars, but US dollar which □"male □" uses in □the gram □are many □more than 400 □, moreover all is a bunch of bunch □□, namely direct cost then ultra □2 □Yuan people □; Adds on melts □the cost and tests □to □本利 □, therefore Xu?? 4 □Yuan people □; But □the politics department □besides the above 2,000 □US dollars, □other disbursements must have □the ticket □to be bright can □be possible.

More than 400 □US dollars "male □□", how does Xu □have □the ticket? Therefore □tube aircraft carrier □Fang Yi begins to rebuild □the year, but □Fang?zhi □□until now still attached: "The tile good standard" □has He??? □arrow After □"Minsk" □, "base □" □aircraft carrier, "the tile good standard" □the aircraft carrier (Varyag) is center □the people □company presses the third Russia □Si aircraft carrier which "□□□" □the standard □enters. But □front □different is, "the tile good standard" □□"the oil □□is must dry" retirement □, but is "□the will has not repaid" the Russia sea □only large-scale aircraft carrier "□this 涅佐夫" □after □□- - not yet finishes □suffers halts construction. Also because of □so, □□□multi- people □it "□was thinking" □many, □outside □sentiment department □□it "□□" □to, that □□constructs the large-scale aviation mother which has not finished □to have □is possible, "tile good standard" □aircraft carrier whether can bring back to life, prestige □coastal territory? □I □make a panoram type to pass □. A family background □life is rough "Many □Monthly publications" in April □(□13th issue) on April 10 publishes at Hong Kong. (Are many □society) Wants □"the tile good standard" □, has no alternative but □Russia □Si Hai? □to be arrogant "□this 涅佐夫" of □road of the heavy aircraft carrier and the first □□sea □aircraft carrier □.

In 1982, made western sea □□item not already 1143.5 "□□巡洋 □" the project □□completes by the front □□涅 tile central □□bureau. □then is □passes □"□this 涅佐夫" □the heavy aircraft carrier head □. At first □"gram □姆 forest □" □, □□Xie?hou Russia sea □□its official life beautiful □fresh fear "in addition □aircraft carrier" "The tile good standard" □the aircraft carrier is the present Russia sea □only in the service "□this 涅佐夫" □aircraft carrier after □□. Is Leng?? ahead of time □□□ultra beautiful □□□sea □□□□item, □□is its 30 years grinds □the painstaking care □the crystal. "The tile good standard" □□placed □the bone in 1985 in □a gram □ship, in 1988 launched, □□displacement 67,500 □, □mold ultra □"□" □, □Yu Mei? "Nimitz" □nuclear aircraft carrier. Can □build □40 - 70 □□□, changes in particular □from □- 27 "□□" □- 33 "the sea □□" heavy □□□□is especially friendly □, pursues □item □to be apart from □may □24 □□Xie?hou "under □" In January, 1983, "□this 涅佐夫" □reigned to Black Sea □, the long □great reputation □the gram □Nikolayev ship □□labor, after 35 □months, namely in December, 1985 launched, 2 □□"the tile good standard" □(chose a name □"riga" □□is at first) Yu?yue the □labor. At the end of the 80's at the beginning of 90's, □□each □□□fresh politics □□, □□the political situation also is "Shan Yu wants □□□□". □□, □□is high □(mainly is 俄籍 □□) □Italy □"society □the host □republican □□pledge" □□had the fission the possibility. Makes □□the sea □control strength, □takes □in the construction "□" □, then became to □has been important one □.

Thereupon, □the tube sea □project not yet completes, □the sea □□was is hurried in January, 1991 □bureau "□" □entered the service command, □at once □□□□□Black Sea, goes north □□the Russia □Si Jing? north □□base. □year in December, □□proclaims the confession □, but □□completes nearly 80% □"the tile good standard" □the aircraft carrier construction work by □立後 □a gram □government "calls to stop". □□"tile good standard" □□□□has finished, each □weapon □□according to □□has completed □70%. But divides family property after Russia □Si?? the gram □in to carve up Black Sea □□and the minute □aircraft carrier construction □□and so on □□on □quarrels continuous, □simply stops to finally Russia □Si for □"the tile good standard" □part and construction □gold, but □a gram □sea □does not need □□□however to be big, then has □its □□□ship transaction city □. This □Russia □□□already □in "tile good standard" □on body flower □5 □US dollars and 10 year light □, □merit □one □. "The tile good standard" □□□the marine great □tyrant, cannot move towards the sea, only can gaze at the ocean □□, has no alternative but □to be □a generation of aircraft carrier one □is sad □. □"tile good standard" one □□□ 21 th □□fires, □marine have the possibility □to ignite, □has not grasped □□□the center control of the sea □, the air supremacy □, various sea big □all extremely heavy □aviation mother □and aircraft carrier technique □□unfolds. Some involve the aircraft carrier unique □- □□matching technique □□□, if aircraft carrier □□□□matchingDoes the take off and landing way, how increase the embarkation quantity, the display biggest potency and so on, is regarded as at the beginning of the 21st century to develop the aircraft carrier key technologies. “The tile good standard” the heavy aircraft carrier design, the craft, the construction are very advanced without doubt, the shipboard majority of equipment or the structure in construction that age all are in the world first-class. Ship-building industry itself had reflected a country in aspect and so on metallurgy, machinery, electron, power, chemical industry technical levels, the warship has highlighted this kind of level, also has manifested a country's armament ability. “The tile good standard” the hull various part selects the material all is extremely elegant, the craft is fine, the structure is compact, is reasonable, the overall performance is very prominent. This subsequented construction for it has laid the reliable foundation. Although the Chinese at present comprehensive national strength is not too strong, but in some high tech domain, aspects and the world apex level water 凖 disparity and so on metal structure manufacturing industry level does not calculate in a big way, some places are in leading. The Chinese ships industry internationally also had certain status. It can be said that, in the design, the construction (including re-equipping, subsequents construction) the aircraft carrier aspect, China has ability completely. 祇 must renew the idea, the open field of vision, breaks the rules the restraint, certainly can give “the tile good standard” aircraft carrier one the opportunity which returns to the ocean, gives full play.

Makes the sharp ship-borne fighter plane

The ship-borne airplane group is aircraft carrier main “the murderer 鐧”, it undertakes the attack, the air supremacy, the early warning, the electronic warfare anti-submarine, and so on many kinds of operational mission, its performance height affects the aircraft carrier directly the fighting efficiency. But the carrier-borne air craft weight and the criterion are decided directly by the aircraft carrier itself displacement and the deck area. According to the Russian official publication "Navy Weaponry" the material disclosed, “tile” ship (1143.7 project ships) captain 322.3 meters (water line length 290 meters), model width 8 2.3 meter, drinking water 14.14 meters, sign 凖 displacement 58,500 ton, maximum displacement 67,500 tons. Landing deck area 16700 square meters. May say “the tile good standard” the giant hull and the landing deck have provided the good platform foundation for the embarkation high performance carrier-borne air craft. Makes one calls 絕 is “the tile good standard” the aircraft carrier has a distinctive style slides the leap type landing deck. “Storehouse this alunite Zopf” the aircraft carrier, is former Soviet Union first uses slides the leap landing deck large-scale aircraft carrier. This aircraft carrier slides leaps the deck long 60 meters, the angle of ascent is approximately 12 degrees.

1989 year's end, □the sea □in "□" □on successfully □good □- 27K, Mig - 29K, □- 25T slid □□□□. Other □□like peaceful - 74 □police □, elegant gram - 141 vertical short distances take off and landing □□after slid □□□□□has also obtained the success. □sea □2nd □with slides □the deck aircraft carrier is "the tile good standard" □, it was up to now in the world □the position is biggest □with slides □the deck aircraft carrier. Deck 上升角 □14, it slides □□□sortie, □□the material □may □10 minute □□12 sortie, namely average 50 seconds □□1 sortie. If □the west "the sea □" and so on makes □itself to have the vertical short distance take off and landing ability □□□, Shang?shi slid □the type deck charm, that □□heavy nearly 20 □□- 27K □with slid □□□makes one hold in high esteem, because □□indicated often □the high performance □□□was allowed to use slides □the deck to get up □, then might □the province grind □□shoots □□sets raises □□uses.
□□□the technique □□□, ground new □one □□□□generally needs to spend □ten □US dollars to grind □□, □the province □□, was ordinary □uses □on changed in □the base □□base □the method. In the world □□□this □are not many, may for the center □□□are less. □the analysis, mainly has four: □- 27K (□- 33), Mig - 29 K, "□the leopard" FBC - 1 □□□explodes □and grinds □F - 10 □□□, its □weight in 18 □to 30 □□. Center □□□□□the center "has been what is worth mentioning black □" - - Mig - 29K □□□. India in to Russia □Si??

"Ge?shen the branch husband" □the aircraft carrier same □, □hit Mig - 29K to do necessary □□□□. □□□the angle and □looked with the nature, India □□is extremely exactly □. Elegant gram - 38 □however in □on easy to operate, but technique □backwardness, the ability are limited; □- 33 makes □the potency □is above Mig - 29K 5 times, but □□□is big, □the standard □. Mig - 29K exactly is one □is situated between □□, the effect □□is better than, the technique □mature center □□□□. Moreover Mi Gao? the company is grinding □Mig - 2 9K □□air refueling □, □□doubts □□□the earth to enhance the Mig - 29K □□□group to make □the potency. □one □handles has also caused center □the sea □□note. □□□police □□aircraft carrier to □important, center □sea □□□□□is the fixed wing □□, because □goes straihgt up □the performance, Rong?

, the range and so on are limited, □by □full picture "tile" □□□heavy aircraft carrier □police concurrently □cooperation □spatial middle finger □need. Center □may test □directs □□the gram □□to make peacefully - 7 in addition, has directed □□- 27, □- 30 also may serve as the spatial middle finger □□, its □□Lei?

tan □arrives item □information may □□□on the aircraft carrier □the police go straihgt up □, increases goes straihgt up □□the police □□. □- 30 alliances □police line □, also does not lose a □new □□police pattern which □center □□"the tile good standard" □the aircraft carrier provides. One □searches □the defense □department 21 th □at the beginning of entire □sea □, requests the aircraft carrier becomes □the marine □cooperation □to refer to □the control center. C4ISR (Command, Control, Communication, Computer Intelligence. Surveillance. Reconaissance namely refers to □, control, correspondence, □calculated □and sentiment □, □□, □observes series) □is □a generation of aircraft carrier must □makes □the management is □, its direct shade □aircraft carrier and □□□makes □the potency □□.

Aircraft carrier □□C4ISR is □including the massive control benches and the workstation, guarantees □the foot □information □principle ability. May have 20 □large screen □telltales, 25 □makes □the information center control bench, 4 □□□control benches, 20 □JM the CIS control bench and many □100 □JMCIS (in Joint Maritime Combat Information □the recent years □have obtained □the foot in the IT □□aspect □to unfold, □in □□□by □and so on medium □ship C4ISR were □grind □center have obtained □many successes □□. □however grinds □aircraft carrier C4ISR is □□□□, is sleepy □many, but so long as guarantees □the foot □investment, center □certainly can □"the tile good standard" □distributionally grind □a set □to use □□C4ISR is □. Center □possibly meets □□is □"the tile good standard" □aircraft carrier An?? □□.

Beautiful □and the western □family's aircraft carrier universal was peaceful □11 □, 16 □and 22 □three sets □□□is □, passes □entire □gathers the correspondence is □(FICS) and □is □□the aircraft carrier melts into with □the star correspondence one □□□□□. Center □in □□□□□the aspect always is weak □□, from now on if will not enlarge grinds □dynamics, the short-term □will not be able to put out □with □sets, definitely □the shade □"the tile good standard" □the aircraft carrier □will construct □the regulation, will form the fatal flaw. □Yu?? many □□Lei?, the light □□□and □□, center □completely have the ability by from □and directs □□□the way, □"the tile good standard" □the aircraft carrier necessary □entire function □is big entire □searches □the method. Moreover, in □□the defense is □the aspect, center □surface □most greatly is sleepy □is must □Xie??

□vertical □shoot □sets □□. □now displacement □the aircraft carrier is smaller than much law "the tile good standard" □"Dai Gao?" □the nucleus □strength aircraft carrier, as well as is grinding England □, Italy, India and so on □the new generation of aircraft carrier, all universal was peaceful vertically □□□has shot is □, by □anti- day by day □and omnidirectional counter- □□□attacked □. "The tile" □originally planned slides □□the runway in □後端, disposes 12 □Yuan SSN - 19 "the flowered □crag" □Cheng Fan? □□vertical □shoots □sets. Moreover, - 9 "the advantage □" □is spatial vertically in side □peaceful □4 □24 □Yuan SAN □□□shoots the well to make □□the defense is again □. What a pity □sells in "the tile" □center □before, above □sets has completely opened □. But center □□Russia □Si Yin? vertical □has shot SA - 12, SA - 15 such as the places are spatial □□are □, definitely may imitate □□resembles vertically □□□□□shoots □sets. □however, center □also may □on passes □□□□like □the continent □household utensils in □□□the fire city □same □□, □□"the tile good standard" □the aircraft carrier □□function consummates, □the big defense □department. Again □the information searches □is □□the hand, □becomes "the tile good standard" □one □omni-directional searches □/ the defense □.

bd popeye · May 5, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Jeff..your back in the forum! Hi ya doin???

Jeff thats' s a tough translation. Very difficult to understand 100%. But thanks!

I keep looking for new pics...but there haven't been any real new ones in the last several months as compared to the fairly regular new ones we saw before that. Perhpas they are clamping down even more on security? Who knows.

Yes afterall this is the Varyag opic thread..but we have not seen any new pics in some time

With this lack of new pictures a person would have to think that security is really tight. But perhaps there is a diffrent reason???

Tphuang posted this eariler...

I don't think it's an issue of the security around the shipyard. Trust me, China is not police state that many people think it is. However, it's the issue of putting it up online. You can bet that PLAN is monitoring the stuff that get posted on the Chinese military forums. They would not let people see anything that they really don't want the rest of the world to see. After a while, the forum webmasters don't want to get in trouble, so they will just remove any images they think is too revealing. Let's put it this way, some of these forum webmasters are like insiders to pla. In order to maintain their status, they have to listen to not get on the wrong side of pla. And when it comes to the bottom line, all the new pictures come from Chinese forums. So, if they are not allowed to post stuff, then we are not going to see any new pictures either. Shame, really.

Now that's probally the truth because he is in a position to know.

Jeff Head · May 5, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

bd popeye said:
Jeff..your back in the forum! Hi ya doin???

Thank you, I am doing quite well. Work and family (grandkids, sons track meets, etc.) have been keeping me very busy.

bd popeye said:
Now that's probally the truth because he is in a position to know.

I agree. Any good security is going to be multi-layered and somehow, the flow of pictures regarding the Varyag has slacked off. We shall see. We met yet see something like this in the waters of China's coast in the 2008/Olympic time frame.

Sczepan · May 5, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Hi Jeff,
happy to see you again

and about the CBG:
in my opinion both 051 C Air Defence DDG will become part of future chinese CBG - why?

Very simple:
They have no hangar to carrie Helos, so they need other ships which can transport helos - and there is no better ship to transport a lot of helos as a carrier.
If the 051 C DDGs ar part of CBG, they dont need an helo-hangar - and can use these space for other things like air defence missiles....

Jeff Head · May 5, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Sczepan said:
They have no hangar to carrie Helos, so they need other ships which can transport helos - and there is no better ship to transport a lot of helos as a carrier. If the 051 C DDGs ar part of CBG, they dont need an helo-hangar - and can use these space for other things like air defence missiles....

Well, I believe that a few ASW helos and Naval helos (AEW, transport, etc.) should be on the carrier, but the VAST majority of space on that carrier should be reserved for attack aircraft and fleet defense (air superiority) aircraft. That's its primary purpose.

The 52C will probably be used along with other escorts that all have their own ASW helos onboard to function effectively not only as AAW pickets and defense, but equally critically as ASW defense.

The greatets threat that carriers face in my opinion still comes from beneath the waves. That is why the US Navy trains so hard at ASW and includes very capably multifunction vessels (Burkes and Ticos) as escorts that carry their own two ASW helos...not to mention the attack sub or two each carrier strike group has.

Sczepan · May 6, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Jeff Head said:
.....The 51C and other escorts should have their own ASW helos onboard to function effectively not only as AAW pickets and defense, but equally critically as ASW defense.

The greatets threat that carriers face in my opinion still comes from beneath the waves. That is why the US Navy trains so hard at ASW and includes very capably multifunction vessels (Burkes and Ticos) as escorts that carry their own two ASW helos...not to mention the attack sub or two each carrier strike group has.

but the 51 C cant have there own ASW Helos anboard, they have no hangar - so they need other ships to transport these Helos ....

Jeff Head · May 6, 2006

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Sczepan said:
but the 51 C cant have there own ASW Helos anboard, they have no hangar - so they need other ships to transport these Helos ....

You are exactly right, and I apologize. I meant the 52C. i expect that the Chinese carrier battle group will be escorted by either one or two of these, along with a Sov and a couple of the new frigates. The helicopters the 52C carriers will be critical to ASW protection of the carrier, as well as the substantial AAW coverage they would give. They may add a 51C in there for even more AAW coverage...but the PLAN would be foolish (IMHO) to short change the ASW protection of their carrier in any way.. I'll correct my earlier post.

PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Roger604

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Jeff Head

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Jeff Head

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bd popeye

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Jeff Head

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Sczepan

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Jeff Head

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Sczepan

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Jeff Head

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