Blackstone
Brigadier
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
Delft, I was facetious about Jeep Carriers.
Delft, I was facetious about Jeep Carriers.
PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
I leave oot the well deck vessels because they are multi-mission vessels with a huge role in the Amphibious and Air Assault roles.
However, once those carriers are equipped with something like a EV-22 Opsrey AEW aircraft, a V-22 refuleing aircraft and F-35Bs and the ordinance they can carry...they will become real threats to much larger carriers and will progess beyond just being escort or "Jeep" carriers, or close support for amphibious landings in terms of their raw capability.
A wing of even 12 F-35Bs could pose a real threat to other carriers and would have to be respected as such.
But we are getting pretty far off-fopic from Chinese Carrier Construction here and probably need to get back on topic.
Well, it is true that carriers like the Thai Chakri Naruebet, the Italian Garibaldi, the Spanish Asturias (now decommissioned), the Japanese Hyugas and Izumos...those types of STOVL carriers without a well deck, are probably as close to "Jeep" carriers as anything in existance today.
I leave oot the well deck vessels because they are multi-mission vessels with a huge role in the Amphibious and Air Assault roles.
However, once those carriers are equipped with something like a EV-22 Opsrey AEW aircraft, a V-22 refuleing aircraft and F-35Bs and the ordinance they can carry...they will become real threats to much larger carriers and will progess beyond just being escort or "Jeep" carriers, or close support for amphibious landings in terms of their raw capability.
A wing of even 12 F-35Bs could pose a real threat to other carriers and would have to be respected as such.
But we are getting pretty far off-fopic from Chinese Carrier Construction here and probably need to get back on topic.
Engineer
Major
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
Reducing speed, also known as slowing down, is counterproductive when the goal is to launch the aircraft in the shortest distance possible. The aircraft actually needs to increase speed to get away safely, which is what a catapult is for. A ski ramp does not add any acceleration to the aircraft, and does not reduce take off distance the way you have imagined.
Reducing speed, also known as slowing down, is counterproductive when the goal is to launch the aircraft in the shortest distance possible. The aircraft actually needs to increase speed to get away safely, which is what a catapult is for. A ski ramp does not add any acceleration to the aircraft, and does not reduce take off distance the way you have imagined.
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
One of the things that I've always felt was beneficial for future Chinese carrier development was the Ulyanovsk design, because having those blueprints greatly helps in the development of CVNs, particularly as the Soviets had several mature nuclear powered surface ship designs already, so incorporating those elements to Chinese carrier experience as it develops can only help speed up CVN design work.
One of the things that I've always felt was beneficial for future Chinese carrier development was the Ulyanovsk design, because having those blueprints greatly helps in the development of CVNs, particularly as the Soviets had several mature nuclear powered surface ship designs already, so incorporating those elements to Chinese carrier experience as it develops can only help speed up CVN design work.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
I may have missed it if mentioned before but does PLAN have the blueprints for the Ulyanovsk? do we know that as a fact or just speculation?
I may have missed it if mentioned before but does PLAN have the blueprints for the Ulyanovsk? do we know that as a fact or just speculation?
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
Even if they did I doubt it would amount to much. I mean its a forty year old carrier design, drawn up concurrent with the Kuznetsov. And if the Russians suddenly had issues with her I would lay money that Ulyanovsk has the same issues and more flaws hidden in here design. Add that the Chinese would push for there advanced goodies, have studied at close hand a number of western (albeit older) carriers. And it seems more likely that they will start with a clean slate.
Even if they did I doubt it would amount to much. I mean its a forty year old carrier design, drawn up concurrent with the Kuznetsov. And if the Russians suddenly had issues with her I would lay money that Ulyanovsk has the same issues and more flaws hidden in here design. Add that the Chinese would push for there advanced goodies, have studied at close hand a number of western (albeit older) carriers. And it seems more likely that they will start with a clean slate.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
yeah I agree TE... I mean the basic design of a carrier even the recently launched Ford class is not exactly a state secret. General layout and blueprints are not that hard to come by. Heck anyone can just take a tour of the floating museums and get a pretty good feel of a CV LOL
yeah I agree TE... I mean the basic design of a carrier even the recently launched Ford class is not exactly a state secret. General layout and blueprints are not that hard to come by. Heck anyone can just take a tour of the floating museums and get a pretty good feel of a CV LOL
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
For a conventional CV perhaps, not for something with a nuclear power plant. The Ulyanovsk's KN-3 nuclear powerplant was derived from the Kirov reactors, and that's something the PLAN at this point still doesn't have on any of their surface ships. The Soviets still had more experience with surface ship nuclear powerplants, and that would still be instructive in any case.
For a conventional CV perhaps, not for something with a nuclear power plant. The Ulyanovsk's KN-3 nuclear powerplant was derived from the Kirov reactors, and that's something the PLAN at this point still doesn't have on any of their surface ships. The Soviets still had more experience with surface ship nuclear powerplants, and that would still be instructive in any case.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
I do not disagree at all but I was refering more to the layout and design of the ship as oppose to the powerplant, subsystems etc. Powerplants are powerplants... if PLAN wants to 'study blueprints of nuclear powerplants there are much better ways of getting it than from the Ukranians. Like you said Kirov has them too they don't need Ulyanovsk blueprints for that.
I do not disagree at all but I was refering more to the layout and design of the ship as oppose to the powerplant, subsystems etc. Powerplants are powerplants... if PLAN wants to 'study blueprints of nuclear powerplants there are much better ways of getting it than from the Ukranians. Like you said Kirov has them too they don't need Ulyanovsk blueprints for that.
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction
Whats a matter Jr.????? little woman slap ya around, you're on a roll aren't ya, "reducing speed, also known as slowing down", sorry Master Delft, but you set yourself up for his attack, oh man, he musta been watching "Top Gun" again today. Delft, I don't think he's buyin your Emals in a Ramp, but I will give you credit for "stickin with your idea", and for originality, I'm picturing something like a roller coaster, but it would take more torque and horsepower to pull that Flanker UP the ramp......"reducing speed, also known as slowing down" we gotta "sticky" that one somewhere, classic Eng! Put some sugar in your TEA bro...
Whats a matter Jr.????? little woman slap ya around, you're on a roll aren't ya, "reducing speed, also known as slowing down", sorry Master Delft, but you set yourself up for his attack, oh man, he musta been watching "Top Gun" again today. Delft, I don't think he's buyin your Emals in a Ramp, but I will give you credit for "stickin with your idea", and for originality, I'm picturing something like a roller coaster, but it would take more torque and horsepower to pull that Flanker UP the ramp......"reducing speed, also known as slowing down" we gotta "sticky" that one somewhere, classic Eng! Put some sugar in your TEA bro...