PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Maybe dailian championed a ramp equipped STOBAR design, built a demo module, but lost?

I don't know how the naval construction establishment of PLAN works. Does the navy independently design all adpects of their own vessels, and dictate detailed specifics in contracts to the ship builders? Or does tge navy only specify the broad outline of what they want and leave a great deal of the detailed desgn to an outside naval architecture establishment that might be attached to a major ship builder?

If it is the latter, then dailian and shanghai might not only compete only on the level of actual construction contract, but also on the level of general design, even to the point of influencing the type of carrier the navy gets.

Just a thought.
 

cn_habs

Junior Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Breaking news, Breaking News !!!!!

Chinese aircraft carrier under construction at Dalian:

1. It is 5% larger around 72,000 tons.
2. It has a 10% larger flight deck than Liaoning.
3. It has a 40% larger hanger than Liaoning!!

Here:

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What's that guy's credibility like? Is he a big shrimp?
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Hmmm very interesting development!! or is this totally Bravo Sierra?? but sounds legit..
speculation it could possibly be an actual flat top as oppose to ramp! so what the heck is that ramp thing we saw inside in all those pictures?
surely PLAN can't be developing Liaoning #2 AND a CV at the same time can she???!?!?:confused:

says design 'inspired 'somewhat after the French PA2.. can't be.. It's too soon!:confused:

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Which post mentions the idea that this ship may be CATOBAR?

This will be a surprise if true -- everyone was of the consensus the second CV would be 001A rather than 002.
Then again I'd like to wait until a few other big shrimps or posters of high repute start agreeing with this.


Edit: the description reminds me of this:

2ugkl7q.jpg



Maybe dailian championed a ramp equipped STOBAR design, built a demo module, but lost?

I don't know how the naval construction establishment of PLAN works. Does the navy independently design all adpects of their own vessels, and dictate detailed specifics in contracts to the ship builders? Or does tge navy only specify the broad outline of what they want and leave a great deal of the detailed desgn to an outside naval architecture establishment that might be attached to a major ship builder?

If it is the latter, then dailian and shanghai might not only compete only on the level of actual construction contract, but also on the level of general design, even to the point of influencing the type of carrier the navy gets.

Just a thought.

Well we recently saw both JNCX's catobar proposal, and DL's STOBAR proposal... I wonder if maybe both demo modules were competitors for the same PLAN contract? That is to say, JN and DL would both design the ship, and whoever's design won the PLAN's support would end up being produced by both shipyards, that way the shipbuilding capacity of both shipyards can be used to full effect?

All assumptions of course.
At this stage we don't even know if there really is a carrier being built at DL (we've only seen the ski jump which may or may not be a demo module), and we certainly don't know if its hangar really is 40% larger than liaoning, let alone whether it's CATOBAR.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

The pride comes before the fall.

Seriously, a navy needs to meet the defensive needs of the state first, only when its resources are more than required for defence, could it embark on the luxury of strategic offensive mindset.
I wouldn't disagree. I guess my point is that given the current relative stability of the international environment, it's easier and more efficient for China to build its carrier force towards its power projection abilities then to simply think defensively, particularly as it already has an immediate need for them. If that relative stability changes, that would of course change the calculus.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

What's that guy's credibility like? Is he a big shrimp?

Just for the sake of discussion, a 40% increase in hanger volume over Liaoning would put PLAN's new 'new' carrier's hanger almost the same size as a US supercarrier. It will have no problem embarking 36 J 15s and can maybe even squeeze in 48!!!

Personally I find that hard to believe so I may have to debunk it but of course I hope I am proven wrong ;)
It's too soon. Its not 2025 yet LOL
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Just for the sake of discussion, a 40% increase in hanger volume over Liaoning would put PLAN's new 'new' carrier's hanger almost the same size as a US supercarrier. It will have no problem embarking 36 J 15s and can maybe even squeeze in 48!!!

Personally I find that hard to believe so I may have to debunk it but of course I hope I am proven wrong ;)
It's too soon. Its not 2025 yet LOL

The rumor said that the volume of the storage will increase by 40%, not what was thought before.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

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中国重工今日复牌,披露总募资近85亿元的定增预案,其中逾30亿用于收购超大型水面舰船等军工重大装备总装资产,开创了此类核心军工资产证券化的先河,并将开启新一轮军工重组进程。其中,32.75亿元用于收购超大型水面舰船、大中型水面舰船、常规潜艇、大型登陆舰等军工重大装备总装资产。
目前市场连续天量,各种题材此起彼伏,干柴烈火热点不断。中国重工适时复牌,航空母舰第一股的上市,又将点上一把大火,完全有可能复制外高桥的走势,并刺激相关影子股的躁动。
因为中国重工复牌前处于历史底部,只有4.52元,绝对价格很低,上升空间极大,应该能够学习天舟文化、江苏宏宝、外高桥等前辈,再现十连涨的一字涨停的壮观景象,甚至超过。
中国重工一时买不到了,只有当观众的份,但中国重工的影子股却有可能因此得益,喜欢中国重工的投资者,可先狙击中国重工的影子股。
我们对中国重工的影子股做一个分类:
1、最直接受着者:中信证券,持有中国重工5.8亿股,为中国重工的第三大股东,直接享受中国重工重组盛宴。这是外高桥、江苏宏宝、天舟文化盛宴中,二级市场上市公司所不具备的。
2、控股股东中国船舶重工集团(北方公司)旗下的另一兄弟上市公司:风帆股份。
3、中船集团(南方公司)下属的上市公司:中国船舶、中船股份、广船国际。
4、航空母舰舰载机及其他方面与航空母舰有关的上市公司,但此类公司只能是跟风炒作,持续性不会太强。
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

I wouldn't disagree. I guess my point is that given the current relative stability of the international environment, it's easier and more efficient for China to build its carrier force towards its power projection abilities then to simply think defensively, particularly as it already has an immediate need for them. If that relative stability changes, that would of course change the calculus.
The international environment might be relatively stable for the next days, or even months if the US doesn't attack Syria, but you can't defend the notion that it is stable for the next ten years, relevant for deciding the configuration of a flattop. Not while the FED, BoJ and other central bankers create billions of dollars or pounds, trillions of yen &c. each month out of thin air.
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Found at
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UPDATE 2-State-backed China Shipbuilding to raise $1.4 bln for naval buildup

Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:48am IST

(Adds maritime analyst quote, details)

By Yimou Lee and Michael Martina

(Reuters) - State-backed China Shipbuilding Industry plans to raise up to $1.4 billion through a private share sale to buy assets used for building warships, the first time Beijing is tapping the capital market to fund its military expansion.

The move comes as China creates its own military-industrial complex, with the private sector seen taking a key role, as the country gains a new sense of military assertiveness and deals with a growing budget to develop modern equipment including aircraft carriers and drones.

China, whose military spending is now second only to the United States, has unveiled a double-digit rise in its 2013 military budget, with spending on the People's Liberation Army set to rise 10.7 percent to 740.6 billion yuan ($119 billion).

"The thinking of those high-ranking officials is changing. Military asset securitization, or tapping capital markets for military expansion, will be the future trend and the funding scale will also become bigger and bigger," said Wang Hexu, a Shanghai-based analyst at Hwabao Securities.

"Now aviation and weaponry may also be the next sectors for asset securitization," he said.

China Shipbuilding Industry Co Ltd (CSIC) said it plans to raise as much as 8.48 billion yuan ($1.4 billion) by selling up to 2.2 billion shares to as many as 10 selected investors. The investors include two sibling companies, Wuchang Shipbuilding and Dalian Shipbuilding, which are key builders of Chinese warships.

The company, a key supplier to the People's Liberation Army, said it was the first time China was going to the capital market to fund the buildup of its core military.

"The deal will expand the financing channels for China's military defense," China Shipbuilding said in a statement posted on the Shanghai Stock Exchange's website. "It would also herald an overall securitization of China's military assets."

NEW CARRIERS

Beijing last year issued new guidelines aimed at encouraging private investment in a defence sector traditionally sheltered from competition and public scrutiny.

Such investment would bode well for Chinese military-focused shipbuilders compared with commercial shipbuilders like Rongsheng Heavy Industries Group, which fell to a first-half loss and has requested financial help from the government.

China is expected to build one or more aircraft carriers over the next five to 10 years, with each carrier fleet costing nearly $20 billion, China Shipbuilding said, citing expert forecasts.

"CSIC has been rumoured to be one of those that's going to either build, or fit out the new domestically manufactured aircraft carrier," said Gary Li, a Beijing-based senior maritime analyst at consulting firm IHS.

"Some of the companies that are going to be the main buyers of the shares are all keen to have a stake in the new carrier project. Everything from batteries to catapults. It's a big task and the Chinese shipbuilding industry is going to need as many stakeholders and investors as it can get."

Shanghai-listed shares of China Shipbuilding, which had been suspended since May pending the announcement of the deal, jumped more than 10 percent on Wednesday morning. The company has a market value of $10.8 billion.

Military-related products account for 8.3 percent of China Shipbuilding's income, according to Hwabao Securities.

China currently has one aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, which was refitted from a Russian-made model. Considered by military experts to be decades behind U.S. technology, it was originally intended to serve as a floating casino but was turned to military use in the run-up to a power transition in 2012.

China has been at odds with some of its Southeast Asian neighbours over conflicting claims to strings of islets in the resource-rich South China Sea and Beijing now has the firepower to challenge these rivals.
($1 = 6.1200 Chinese yuan)
(Additional reporting by Samuel Shen and Kazunori Takada in SHANGHAI; Writing by Anne Marie Roantree; Editing by Chris Gallagher)

As expected the interruption of trading in CSIC shares since May was connected with the production of aircraft carriers, although this article still can't say which yard will build the next one.
Notice the price expected for each carrier fleet, $20b, nearly twice the value of the shipbuilding concern.
This financial change will likely also spur the export of naval vessels.
 
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