PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Equation said:

LOL...this is in no offense to you Asif, but try to be more careful on your typing next time! It's that darn tricky naughty English language again.

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I apologise equation very bad grammar! in the current climate fists can be very offensive indeed

But we all know what I meant really!

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Xian said:

A Question to the specialists here:
Some speculations are about the possibility that the first indigenious carrier could be in consept like the Ulyanovsk - a ski-ramp at the bow AND one or two cats at the angled deck.
So, what is the reason for such ah configuration?
The ski-ramp has the benefit that you need no cats including the whole infrastructure for there operation with the contra that you are limited in the max Take-Off weight of your aircrafts.
But if you already HAVE cats on your carrier, why put a ramp on the bow instead of 2 additional cats?
Is it such ah big issue to modify the J-15 for cat-usage?

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issue is not J-15.. issue is redesigning the entire bow of the Kunetsov design (liaoning) which we all think China's first indigenous carrier will be based off of.

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

asif iqbal said:

I apologise equation very bad grammar! in the current climate fists can be very offensive indeed

But we all know what I meant really!

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Nothing to be apologizing for my friend, it's just funny that's all. I make grammar mistakes too.

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

kwaigonegin said:

issue is not J-15.. issue is redesigning the entire bow of the Kunetsov design (liaoning) which we all think China's first indigenous carrier will be based off of.

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Why is that such an issue?
I understand that it is to difficult do rebuild a STOBAR Carrier to a CATOBAR Carrier...
But what is the issue to REDESIGN a STOBAR to a CATOBAR before construction begins?
It is work... sure... but is it such an issue that they go fore a concept without any operational aspects and only because the bow needs no redesign?

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Xian said:

Why is that such an issue?
I understand that it is to difficult do rebuild a STOBAR Carrier to a CATOBAR Carrier...
But what is the issue to REDESIGN a STOBAR to a CATOBAR before construction begins?
It is work... sure... but is it such an issue that they go fore a concept without any operational aspects and only because the bow needs no redesign?

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I don't think it is too difficult especially when you are designing the new carrier from scratch. The only issue is... all your crew members now are trained with STOBAR as their primary and only operation. It make sense that the first carrier be STOBAR based with one or two catapult so as to allow crews to learn CATOBAR operation from it.

The crews will then get a first hand on operating a CATOBAR carrier and these will allowed their third aircraft carriers to be full CATOBAR.

So from what I believe the new carrier will be mainly based on the Liaoning but with one or two catapults in it. And if you ask me... I think it will be pretty ugly

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

The crew has to learn CATOBAR operation also on a Ulyanovsk design!
I think it is to expensive to build a senseless carrier-design only to have the possibility to say "oh, we are not able to handle that f***ing cats, lets use that ramp at the bow".

They now operate STOBAR - thats okey to learn how a carrier works! How a CSG will work...
The most difficult thing for the pilots is the landing - there it doesn't matter if you land on ah STOBAR or on a CATOBAR carrier.... also the escorts doens't care about the way how the carrier is getting his aircrafts into air...

To train a fully qualified "STOBAR-carrier-pilot" to take off from a CATOBAR carrier sounds not very difficult to me!
Also the crew should manage that once they have made experience with Liaoning.

I think China should switch direct to a real CATOBAR design... based on the Liaoning with flattened bow...
Liaoning is quite good to train some basics to new crews and pilots i think... but the operational "full-service" carrier will be CATOBAR - REAL CATOBAR and not a mixture like Ulyanovsk...

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

if the next CV indeed carry CATOBAR,by now, some unit of J-15 's forward gear wil already incorporate launch bar.but to date I do not seen it-yet.

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

hardware said:

if the next CV indeed carry CATOBAR,by now, some unit of J-15 's forward gear wil already incorporate launch bar.but to date I do not seen it-yet.

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That is why STOBAR with catapult at angle deck is most likely the variant to be the first domestic made carrier. A lots of member could not see the rational and even claim that shows low level of confidence on catapult. I almost laugh off from my chair...

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Whats your point?
CATOBAR not possible because of the lack of cats, so lets build ah STOBAR with cats at the angled deck?
You also need cats for the "STOBAR with cats"!
So the point is: are cats available or not... of not, the next carrier will be a STOBAR like Liaoning.
If there are cats available: Why put that ugly ramp on the bow instead of additional cats??

Re: PLAN Carrier Construction

Xian said:

Whats your point?
CATOBAR not possible because of the lack of cats, so lets build ah STOBAR with cats at the angled deck?
You also need cats for the "STOBAR with cats"!
So the point is: are cats available or not... of not, the next carrier will be a STOBAR like Liaoning.
If there are cats available: Why put that ugly ramp on the bow instead of additional cats??

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There you still have the Liaoning. You want plane to take off from CV-16 and CV-001. Yes, the J-15 can install catapult gear at the expense of heavy front landing gears and make taking off from Liaoning with lesser payload.

Plus ramp has no mechanism, it will not break down or not working unlike catapult. If neccessary just to send fighter jet up with air defense load, I think the ramp will do the job easily.