PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

I agree that she will be operational. It will strengthen her claims and positions in the disputes over some of the seized islands, though, in doing so, it would also raise some alarms, which have apparently already being raised, as evidenced by recent Japanese meetings with Indonesian and Australian leaders.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Varyag should defenantly go into service and will be China's first operational aircraft carrier. I dont see why it will raise alarms though.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

renmin said:

Varyag should defenantly go into service and will be China's first operational aircraft carrier. I dont see why it will raise alarms though.

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Alarms will be raised quite simply because China will move from operating a coastal defence navy to fielding a bllue water offensive navy. That's the difference having carriers in your fleet makes.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Obi Wan Russell said:

Alarms will be raised quite simply because China will move from operating a coastal defence navy to fielding a bllue water offensive navy. That's the difference having carriers in your fleet makes.

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If you think about it though, China's pretty much got a blue water fleet already - even without the carrier. Not one that could challenge the U.S. navy, of course, but still the most dominant in the region. They've got a fleet of modern Kilo and Song submarines, and quite a reliable surface fleet - those Sovremennys pack a punch with their sunburns - that would be a force to be reckoned with in open sea. But a carrier would make the PLAN even more powerful, since it provides air cover - then it does have a complete blue water navy - but it would not concern the U.S. or anyone else much - aqquiring one huge carrier is a great achievement for the Chinese, but that alone would not help it take on the Indian navy, never mind the U.S. navy, who has dozens of carriers like this.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

China hasen't got the bluewater navy just yet...They are going for that direction and perhaps in decade or so they will make there, but still they are more of transition fleet.

Bluewater anvy doesen't mean you have big surface combadants, it means a fleet which operates in the oceans, far from homecoast and is capaple of global reach. Chinese naval presence is not evident anywhere else than in it's imidient borders and at the moment the lack of even adequate ASW capability will keep PLAN close to homewaters.

But don't worry, PLAN is getting there. Everything what is happened in the past 10 years concerning chinese navy speaks that at least some sort of desire towards bluewater operations exist and is being purcued.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Thanks for the clarification Golly. My point was that China's navy, although big and reasonably modern, is still operated as a coastal (ie home waters) defence navy. A 'Blue Water' Navy is one which can sustain operations far from home and can at least make a credible bid for control of its' immediate operational area (air, surface and subsurface), and while individual ships and subs in the PLAN have been built to do this in recent years, they are not yet ready to deploy a task force far from home and sustain it for several months. It will happen, within the next decade, but they aren't there yet.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

DPRKPTboat said:

If you think about it though, China's pretty much got a blue water fleet already...still the most dominant in the region.

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I would disagree with this. I believe that the JMSDF is still quite a bit larger, more modern (overall), and more proficient than the PLAN. Next to the US Navy, the Japanese clearly have the largest and most diverse and proficient destroyer navy in the world in my opinion.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Jeff Head said:

I would disagree with this. I believe that the JMSDF is still quite a bit larger, more modern (overall), and more proficient than the PLAN. Next to the US Navy, the Japanese clearly have the largest and most diverse and proficient destroyer navy in the world in my opinion.

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I agree whit Obi Wan Russell and Jeff. JSDF has some 40 modern destroyers and 17 submarines (most modern SSK fleet in the world).Plus they are building new helicopter carriers. Not the mention that JSDFM experience in operating blue water navy gained during cold war (Japanese navy during cold war had task similar to those Royal navy had in Atlantic Ocean).

Saying that I’m not implying that PLAN isn’t capable force; quite opposite they are among more capable forces in region... China has shown that they can build modern ships and it seams that they have chosen “small step” policy in achieving blue water capabilities.

During last decade they are developing small batches of new ships whit each class being more modern then previous, they have vastly improved logistic capabilities and small Chinese task groups are constantly making more and more demanding exercises to gain experience whit ship replenishment at sea, combined operations, etc. or to test new concepts like deployment that simulated CBG operations...

Knowing that we may be certain that PLAN will become real blue water navy in next decade…

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

isthvan said:

I agree whit Obi Wan Russell and Jeff. JSDF has some 40 modern destroyers and 17 submarines (most modern SSK fleet in the world).Plus they are building new helicopter carriers. Not the mention that JSDFM experience in operating blue water navy gained during cold war (Japanese navy during cold war had task similar to those Royal navy had in Atlantic Ocean).

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I don't know much about the Japanese navy, except that they have a reliable SSK fleet. But now that you've mentioned that, I think I've been proved wrong. But I think it is still safe to say that the PLAN is one of the most powerful navies in the region, certainly more than the ROCN, for example. But, as you guys say, it still has a long way to go. But once it has a carrier like the Varyag, it is another step closer to being a powerful blue water navy.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

DPRKPTboat said:

I don't know much about the Japanese navy, except that they have a reliable SSK fleet. But now that you've mentioned that, I think I've been proved wrong. But I think it is still safe to say that the PLAN is one of the most powerful navies in the region

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That's an important distinction to make. I'm sure China doesn't under-estimate the JMSDF - as isthvan pointed out, they have a light helicopter carrier under construction with another planned.

I have always wondered what will happen when China's first operational (as opposed to training) carrier is commissioned. It will give the PLAN a real boost, but at the same time its advantage could so easily be lost if Japan and South Korea go for them too. In some respects, I think the MSDF's new helicopter "destroyer" programme (the 13,500 t vessel we've mentioned) and the ROKN's LPXs are a preparatory stepping stone for such an eventuality.

The last thing the region needs is a naval arms race, though a cynic might say there's already a partial one going.