PLAN Carrier Construction

Jeff Head said:

Here's what we have gotten over the last several weeks out of Dalian regarding a potential indigenous PLAN carrier being constructed there, and the module of part of the bow.

First, we had a sketch from a supposed yard worker who could not take a photo, but could draw a sketch and someone rendered it as follows:

​

Then later, we got some pretty decent artists renderings of that sketch from several angles. Here's on of them.

​

Finally, we have the picture of the Liaoning from Dalian taken such that is also caputured what appears to be the same module in the background. In fact, it appears to be from the same angle as the rendering picture I showed (which is why I showed that one).

​

As I said, I have examined the last photo, blown it up, and looked for inconsistencies. I could not find any. Now, the one I posted today has a few around the red circle that was drawn on the earlier photo...to remove it. But that is my doing. The original had none, and this one has none around that module.

I believe that that is in fact an actual module sitting behind the Liaoning. I believe it is the same thing the yard worker saw and sketched and then was rendered. I also believe it looks a lot like what could possibly be a ski ramp on the bow of a carrier.

Is that actually what it is? Too soon to tell, but it looks like it may well be.

Is it in fact a large module being constructed for the 1st indigenous PLAN carrier? That is...as I said before...the $50 dollar question.

Time will tell.

Click to expand...

Good analysis, Jeff. Do you suppose Dalian assembled two different demo carrier bows, with and without ski ramp? Given the well-known limitations with ski ramp carriers, I wonder why PLAN wants another one. Is it that much of a reach for Dalian to build a cat-equipped CV?

Unquestionalable this is a carrier

Second carrier is under construction!

Deino said:

And what's this ???

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Deino

Click to expand...

If China is willing to spend 16 billion RMBs ($3 billion USD) for CV 002, then is it reasonable to surmise it would bypass another ski ramp carrier and go with steam or EMALS catapults?

asif iqbal said:

Unquestionalable this is a carrier

Second carrier is under construction!

Click to expand...

That's my read too asif, in fact I posted that this morning on the Plan Carrier thread, I'm betting they make an announcement soon, I think they are very happy with the Liaoning, I think they are quite happy with the ramp and the J-15s as well they should be. Congrats to the crew of the Liaoning and specifically the aircrew, good job guys.... brat

Blackstone said:

If China is willing to spend 16 billion RMBs ($3 billion USD) for CV 002, then is it reasonable to surmise it would bypass another ski ramp carrier and go with steam or EMALS catapults?

Click to expand...

Seems reasonable for a ski jump, Queen Elizabeth is roughly speaking $5 billion a pop

And it makes perfect sense that they are going for a basic design package close to Liaoning with most likely a greater load

Liaoning with its inherit deign flaws wasn't exactly air centric so 24 J15, next indigenous carrier I would say still below 65,000 tons could lift 36 J15 with ease

As a matter of fact I think fighter aircraft specific Liaoning could probably get 30+ J15 on too but 24 is the number

That's 24 + 36 = 60 fighter aircraft or the ability to have say 2-3 squadrons in the air over its assets far away from Chinese mainland not bad

Having air cover over your forces outside your own airspace is a huge step in capability

Blackstone said:

Good analysis, Jeff. Do you suppose Dalian assembled two different demo carrier bows, with and without ski ramp? Given the well-known limitations with ski ramp carriers, I wonder why PLAN wants another one.

Click to expand...

Personally, I do not buy into the 1/3 size or whatever demo modules. They can build and analyze modules on the computer well enough to avoid the cost and time needed to build such models IMHO for it getting them to a decision point.

Given their ability to build the LPDs and completely refit the carrier, I think there is little doubt that their major naval shipyards are up to the task.

So then, why another STOBAR?

My opinion is that for all of the following reasons, they will build an improved Liaoning type carrier as their first indigenous carrier.

1) The Liaoning is what they know...and they know it well. It is the least risk and the least cost to get their own carrier built.

2) The cost of ownership of both the Liaoning and this new carrier are markedly less if they both operate similarly and use the same equipment. Training, maintenance, operations, all will benefit from the same logistical and policy/operations trains.

3) This allows them to continue training pilots, aircrews, deck chiefs, and continue operating both carriers with the J-15 as is, without having to redesign the front landing gear to withstand a cat launch.

4) It also gives them the ability to improve on the Liaoning as a STOBAR. Bigger hanger, smaller more efficient Island, etc.

5) Finally, it gives them an excellent opportunity to design Liaoning II with the ability to install cats at the waste position later if they so desire, so they can begin getting into the catapult operations in the future. In this way they could use the 2nd carrier (with all of the above mentioned benefits) as a stepping stone to CATOBAR too. So they design provisions for the cats into the deck and under structure of the new carrier so that later, those cats can be installed and operated when they deem it right.

Anyhow, for all of those reasons I believe such a step would be beneficial, logical, the least costly and the least risk .

Jeff Head said:

Personally, I do not buy into the 1/3 size or whatever demo modules. They can build and analyze modules on the computer well enough to avoid the cost and time needed to build such models IMHO for it getting them to a decision point.

Click to expand...

Well, they built demo modules for the 056, a ship that is far more smaller and easier to build than an aircraft carrier. For the 056 and now the aircraft carrier, I believe they want to test out organization, specifically project management and quality assurance.

Engineer said:

Well, they built demo modules for the 056, a ship that is far more smaller and easier to build than an aircraft carrier. For the 056 and now the aircraft carrier, I believe they want to test out organization, specifically project management and quality assurance.

Click to expand...

Couldn't they already do it with Liaoning and before the refitting of Liaoning? With the 056, I believe they did it when before production of 056 started, but for the new carrier, they could fall back on Liaoning experiences.

rhino123 said:

Couldn't they already do it with Liaoning and before the refitting of Liaoning? With the 056, I believe they did it when before production of 056 started, but for the new carrier, they could fall back on Liaoning experiences.

Click to expand...

Refitting and building a ship from scratch puts different operational strains on project management. Knowing the generally cautious approach to project management in China, I wouldn't be surprised if they built a mock-up just in case.

latenlazy said:

Refitting and building a ship from scratch puts different operational strains on project management. Knowing the generally cautious approach to project management in China, I wouldn't be surprised if they built a mock-up just in case.

Click to expand...

China unlike the US has no experience of building CV,therefore,you are right they decided to build a mock up,according to kanwa,several Ukrainian naval engineer were in shanghai ship yard to assist the construction.