PLAN ASW Capability

THX 1138 said:

Has there been any indication that the PLAN is working on a carrier-based ASW fixed-wing aircraft? Something with more range and speed than a helicopter. Maybe an ASW variant of the KJ-600 airframe, or something along those lines?

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Manned aircraft? None thus far.

On the other hand, if unmanned units can be counted as "ASW fixed-wing aircraft", then the ASW variant of the CH-5 UCAV (CH-5H) adapted for carrier operations can certainly be a great start.



Going forward - Larger, heavier, more powerful, comparable endurance and better-performing ASW UCAVs can certainly be developed for greater mission coverage and capabilities for the PLAN.

(In fact, the CH-6 UCAV - Which is more than twice as heavy as CH-5 - Is currently under study/development for possible future deployment onboard the 076 LHDs. Proper, larger CVs with much longer catapults than those on the 076s should be capable of supporting much larger and heavier UCAVs.)

In the meantime, China really does need more flatdecks with catapults and arresting gears...

good segment from shilao and yankee on ASW

if you want to watch the entire segment

you can see just how ridiculous the entire sending SSN into Taiwan strait is

what is GIUK gap

why Y-8Q is so important

how you can tackle taiwan strait even with 037s in large volume but you can't do that in SCS. You need MPAs

SH-5 was basically useful. It needed to be directly on top to find the submarine

PLAN crews hated P-3Cs because JMSDF would use keep pinging them from overhead.

tphuang said:

good segment from shilao and yankee on ASW

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if you want to watch the entire segment

you can see just how ridiculous the entire sending SSN into Taiwan strait is

what is GIUK gap

why Y-8Q is so important

how you can tackle taiwan strait even with 037s in large volume but you can't do that in SCS. You need MPAs

SH-5 was basically useful. It needed to be directly on top to find the submarine

PLAN crews hated P-3Cs because JMSDF would use keep pinging them from overhead.

Click to expand...

G = Greenland
I = Iceland
UK = United Kingdom

Historical challenge to keep this line 'controlled' to keep at first German and later Soviet/Russian submarines from entering the Atlantic.

The video is only available for paid subscription members.

tphuang said:

how you can tackle taiwan strait even with 037s in large volume but you can't do that in SCS. You need MPAs

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Makes sense.

The SCS is several magnitudes larger than the Taiwan Strait, with much greater complexity and depth variance in seabed topography. China literally has to flood the entire SCS basin with many types of ASW monitoring equipment that she could get her hands on - Satellite, airborne, surface, subsurface and seabed.

A couple tens of 037s (and even 056/As) won't do.

tphuang said:

PLAN crews hated P-3Cs because JMSDF would use keep pinging them from overhead.

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I do wonder if China's KQ-200 and other ASW assets manage to pose similar problems for their Japanese and South Korean counterparts...

In the meantime, as long as China firmly holds the superiority in the skies and seas in and around the 1IC belt, Chinese SSKs should reasonably be able to stay safe with the umbrella cover of the PLAAF and PLAN.

However, in order to push that umbrella further into the 2IC belt i.e. "true-blue" WestPac, much more needs to be done than is presently appreciatable.

pendragon said:

G = Greenland
I = Iceland
UK = United Kingdom

Historical challenge to keep this line 'controlled' to keep at first German and later Soviet/Russian submarines from entering the Atlantic.

Click to expand...

oh, i know what G-I-UK gap is. I'm just saying they explained it here for anything that don't know

They also mentioned that even if they found USN sub back in the day, there is not much they can do about it, because they could only scramble a 037 out there. Different than having MPAs being able to fly over and such.

Also again, P-3C blanked any opportunity PLAN had in sending its submarines out.

ACuriousPLAFan said:

I do wonder if China's KQ-200 and other ASW assets manage to pose similar problems for their Japanese and South Korean counterparts...

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The answer's yes.

ACuriousPLAFan said:

However, in order to push that umbrella further into the 2IC belt i.e. "true-blue" WestPac, much more needs to be done than is presently appreciatable.

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SSKs have no business in the 2IC, that's purely an SSN game. Also, because it's such a vaster body of water than the SCS, enemy sensor density will be necessity be much lower.

tphuang said:

Also again, P-3C blanked any opportunity PLAN had in sending its submarines out.

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It's unclear what you mean and the vid is paywalled. Do P-3Cs still pose a problem or did they use to pose a problem and now the problem's addressed?

ZeEa5KPul said:

SSKs have no business in the 2IC, that's purely an SSN game. Also, because it's such a vaster body of water than the SCS, enemy sensor density will be necessity be much lower.

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Most large modern SSKs - including basically all modern Chinese boats, - are large, oceanic, long-range boats.

Gloire_bb said:

Most large modern SSKs - including basically all modern Chinese boats, - are large, oceanic, long-range boats.

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Just because something can do X doesn't mean it's the most suitable way to do X or even that it's suitable in any sense. SSKs are slow and don't have the endurance of SSNs. China uses them because until very recently they were the only undersea platforms it could build to a modern standard. Now that's changed with the 09-IIIB and especially the 09-V.

The SSKs were a cope. Modern SSN >>> Modern SSK > Nothing.

ZeEa5KPul said:

Just because something can do X doesn't mean it's the most suitable way to do X or even that it's suitable in any sense. SSKs are slow and don't have the endurance of SSNs.

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SSKs have been(and continue to be) used at long ranges since they first got diesel well over a century ago. The appearance of nuclear submarines didn't change much here.
They're relatively slow at any range due to finite amounts of energy onboard(Li-ions less so), but it doesn't matter unless they can reach the destination with meaningful time at station.

As a matter of fact, most SSKs evolved into larger, long-range designs with roomy torpedo rooms.

ZeEa5KPul said:

The SSKs were a cope. Modern SSN >>> Modern SSK > Nothing.

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It isn't the way it works. And for the matter, in a duel situation, modern SSK is very likely to come out victorious against a contemporary Nuke.

Gloire_bb said:

SSKs have been(and continue to be) used at long ranges since they first got diesel well over a century ago. The appearance of nuclear submarines didn't change much here.
They're relatively slow at any range due to finite amounts of energy onboard(Li-ions less so), but it doesn't matter unless they can reach the destination with meaningful time at station.

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You can cross a continent on foot, that doesn't mean air travel didn't change things. Reaching the destination isn't the problem, reaching the destination quickly is. SSKs travel at speeds of single digit knots, a modern SSN can travel at 20+ knots quietly. If you're in the middle of the ocean with no threat of enemy detection, that can go higher.

Gloire_bb said:

As a matter of fact, most SSKs evolved into larger, long-range designs with roomy torpedo rooms.

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Trade caravan routes evolved into freight lines. That still didn't it faster than air freight.

Gloire_bb said:

It isn't the way it works. And for the matter, in a duel situation, modern SSK is very likely to come out victorious against a contemporary Nuke.

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I'm afraid it is. A "duel" between an SSN and an SSK would only occur if the SSN travels near an SSK waiting in ambush, i.e., with a presupposed advantage to the SSK. The duel would go the other way if the SSN were the one waiting in ambush.

In fact, that's a great way to think of SSKs: glorified sea mines with some mobility.