PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

Ships are nothing without crews. If China has excess capacity and money but is not building more at the same time, it would be because they have reached the limits of their academies to turn out crews in time.

What's the point of having ready built hulls waiting for crews to be trained up?

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

plawolf said:

Ships are nothing without crews. If China has excess capacity and money but is not building more at the same time, it would be because they have reached the limits of their academies to turn out crews in time.

What's the point of having ready built hulls waiting for crews to be trained up?

Click to expand...

Just wondering... couldn't China retire older frigates and convert the crews from these frigates to new Type 54A? this way, there will be more already trained crew and so free up some pressure from the naval academies.

Of course there would need to have conversion course for the crews operating older frigates but I believe it would be easier than to train new recruits.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

Well there are many factors to consider.

- What were the old ships used for? Not much good retiring old ships only to have to use 054As to do the same basic tasks.

- How different are the old ships? If they are so different little if any of the crew's original training is of use, then it will not speed things up by much.

- What's the rush? Why does China need so many 054As now? China's technology is improving rapidly all the time, why kill yourself building 10 054As in 2 years when you could have built 6 in the same time and in the next year, new technology allows you to build the more advanced 054B?

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

plawolf said:

......

- What's the rush? Why does China need so many 054As now? China's technology is improving rapidly all the time, why kill yourself building 10 054As in 2 years when you could have built 6 in the same time and in the next year, new technology allows you to build the more advanced 054B?

Click to expand...

My $0.02, because China does not have an adequate sized blue water navy to match it's current economic clout. Protecting one's economic interests and assets afar is critical to maintain the economic momentum.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

joshuatree said:

My $0.02, because China does not have an adequate sized blue water navy to match it's current economic clout. Protecting one's economic interests and assets afar is critical to maintain the economic momentum.

Click to expand...

Where in the world does China have a need for blue water navy right now, or some 5 years in the future?

How does a blue water navy help maintain economic momentum anyway? People keep saying that as if it's a truth in itself, but I just don't see it. Why would you need a military to protect your economic interests, if you trade with cooperative governments?

Can someone tell me where in China's economic spheres of influence (present and near future), does she have a need for her own military, regardless of navy or army?

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

At present moment and from the look of things, China's destroyers fleet was not really large. And she was building an aircraft carrier which I believe will be ready in a few more years time. After that she had plans for a couple more carriers. All these needed escort.

But we are not seeing too much 54A or destroyers being built. I don't believe that the current 54A fleet is enough to escort the carriers and we cannot just wait till the carrier is completed then started building the frigates.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

Just because the Varyag might be completed in a few years does not mean she will be ready for combat operations and long distance tours then as well. It will be several years before the crew is trained up and enough tactics have been developed to be able to call her operational.

Even then the Varyag will most likely be limited in its operational duties as the PLAN will want to use her first as a test and evaluation ship, and then as a training carrier when they start building the domestic carriers so that there are trained up crews ready to take them out to sea as soon as they are built.

The Varyag is just a stop gap, a tool. The Chinese are too proud to make an ex-soviet carrier the crown jewel of their navy. The PLAN's real crown jewels will be the Chinese indigenous carriers and the PLAN's master timetable is set around them, and at current indications, that is planned for full fruition around 2020.

And the type 054 is just the light escorts. The PLAN is still undecided on the final DDG and SSN configuration, which should give you an indication of how far away operational Chinese carrier battle groups are right now. Sure they could cobble together an operational battlegroup with the Varyag when that is finished and its current inventory of warships, but that is far from the PLAN's current long-term objective, which is to have carrier battlegroups that can rival any other in the world. Maybe not quantitatively, but definitely qualitatively in terms of the carriers and the escorts.

There's plenty of time to build enough hulls for the PLAN's needs, and there is no indication that anything will change drastically enough to warrant the PLAN having to completely re-evaluation is maritime security outlook that would make a combat ready blue water navy an immediate requirement.

Sure a modern blue water navy is key to any power with more then regional interests and ambitions, but China has time to build one up at a leisurely pace that will not be difficult to sustain economically or cause undue alarm amongst the neighbors.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

plawolf said:

Ships are nothing without crews. If China has excess capacity and money but is not building more at the same time, it would be because they have reached the limits of their academies to turn out crews in time.

What's the point of having ready built hulls waiting for crews to be trained up?

Click to expand...

The best way to train the crew is to put those very crew on the ships.

plawolf said:

What were the old ships used for? Not much good retiring old ships only to have to use 054As to do the same basic tasks.

Click to expand...

That's the thing -- the old ships don't have much use today. They might be good for coast guard, but even that role can be fulfill by more suitable platforms.

plawolf said:

How different are the old ships? If they are so different little if any of the crew's original training is of use, then it will not speed things up by much.

Click to expand...

If more 054A are launched, then more crew can get familiar with modern equipments, and the more experienced crew could then be transferred to 052D when it is ready.

plawolf said:

What's the rush? Why does China need so many 054As now? China's technology is improving rapidly all the time, why kill yourself building 10 054As in 2 years when you could have built 6 in the same time and in the next year, new technology allows you to build the more advanced 054B?

Click to expand...

Because there are way too many old ships and not enough new ships for use. Have the escort missions not demonstrated this problem enough?

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

112 vessel is being refitted...hopefully now it'll be on par with 054

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

solarz said:

Where in the world does China have a need for blue water navy right now, or some 5 years in the future?

How does a blue water navy help maintain economic momentum anyway? People keep saying that as if it's a truth in itself, but I just don't see it. Why would you need a military to protect your economic interests, if you trade with cooperative governments?

Can someone tell me where in China's economic spheres of influence (present and near future), does she have a need for her own military, regardless of navy or army?

Click to expand...

Where? Uh, well this very thread is a good place to start, off the coast of Somalia for one. Relying on other navies to protect your own merchant fleet is iffy at best.

Isn't China also farming and mining in Africa? What if the scenario turns hostile? The gov't may be cooperative but does that necessarily reflect the local population?

Looking back in history, how did Spain and England become powerhouses of their time? With their navy.