PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments
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»Ø¸´: Somali pirates and Chinese navy
About the spider silk armour, I remember seeing a few reports in Canada, on TV and in magazines about a Canadian company that genetically engineered some goats to produce the protein (not a monster goat with eight legs, but the protein is in the goats milk) so it could be massed produced, but I haven't heard anything about that for years.
About the spider silk armour, I remember seeing a few reports in Canada, on TV and in magazines about a Canadian company that genetically engineered some goats to produce the protein (not a monster goat with eight legs, but the protein is in the goats milk) so it could be massed produced, but I haven't heard anything about that for years.
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy
I hope China doesn't do anything rash about the hostage situation.. It certainly would be nice if they could pull off a rescue mission like what the US did for it's hostage taken crew earlier this year, but if they screw up the consequences for the China's prestige, China's role as a responsible member of the world, and more importantly for crew members would be disastorous..
I hope China doesn't do anything rash about the hostage situation.. It certainly would be nice if they could pull off a rescue mission like what the US did for it's hostage taken crew earlier this year, but if they screw up the consequences for the China's prestige, China's role as a responsible member of the world, and more importantly for crew members would be disastorous..
vesicles
Colonel
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy
This may be a dumb question. It seems that the location of HQ(s) for the pirates is known. Why can't all the mighty navies in the world just go in the take them out? This "escort" thing is good but too passive, just waiting for them to attack... Any more pro-active ideas?
This may be a dumb question. It seems that the location of HQ(s) for the pirates is known. Why can't all the mighty navies in the world just go in the take them out? This "escort" thing is good but too passive, just waiting for them to attack... Any more pro-active ideas?
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy
A rescue operation at sea is nigh on impossible to pull off because of the size and nature of the ship and number of pirates and hostages onboard.
With the same situation in a building, you can have the most detailed blueprints and have multiple strike teams coming in simultaneously from every angel and still end up with lots of dead hostages.
If they do try a rescue at sea, the only option I can see having any chance of not getting all the hostages killed would be to put a shell between the props to strand the ship. Then demand the pirates surrender or face attack, but that could easily backfire.
---Edit added----
Or maybe just put some shells into the cargo hold and just sink the ship outright? One way of forcing the pirates out quickly and effectively. But again could backfire badly if the pirates kept the crew locked up instead of just under guard.
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The only other option would be to try and rescue the hostages after they reached land.
I'm unsure about how the pirates operate. If they tend to take the hostages off the ship and keep them in a safe house, there is a chance of a rescue, but if they keep the hostages on the ship, you effectively have the same problem as above (but would be easier to infiltrate SpecOp teams onto a moored ship instead of a moving one, but you are still pretty restricted in you avenues of attack and can be easily bottlenecked).
Even if the hostages are taken on land, a rescue operation would be extremely difficult and will involve a huge amount of men and resources.
These pirates are effectively an army in strength and equipment. The Americans sent their best against very similar opposition once and got badly mauled.
You can infiltrate some SpecOp teams in who could theoretically take down the guards and secure the hostages for minimal losses. The problem would be how to get the teams and hostages out again through a hostile city as we can safely assume the pirates won't be holding them on the beach if they take them ashore.
Not only does the PLAN lack the helo support to get that many people out at once, even if they did, you would be risking a 'black hawk down' replay.
Unless the PLA is ready to send in an invasion force, they won't be able to get the hostages out by force after they reach Somalia.
There are no good (and arguably, even viable) rescue options here. Thats why no-one else has tried it before. And before anyone start, the USN operation was very different as there was only one hostage in a small boat with minimal cover to allow the SEALs to pull that off. No way of repeating that with a freighter.
And with that example, I doubt the pirates will be all that keen to get off the ship even if you do cripple it.
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Edit added:
How effective is unplated kevlar against very close range AK47 rounds?
Typical shipboard combat may be too close for kevlar to be useful against automatic assault rifle fire.
A rescue operation at sea is nigh on impossible to pull off because of the size and nature of the ship and number of pirates and hostages onboard.
With the same situation in a building, you can have the most detailed blueprints and have multiple strike teams coming in simultaneously from every angel and still end up with lots of dead hostages.
If they do try a rescue at sea, the only option I can see having any chance of not getting all the hostages killed would be to put a shell between the props to strand the ship. Then demand the pirates surrender or face attack, but that could easily backfire.
---Edit added----
Or maybe just put some shells into the cargo hold and just sink the ship outright? One way of forcing the pirates out quickly and effectively. But again could backfire badly if the pirates kept the crew locked up instead of just under guard.
-------
The only other option would be to try and rescue the hostages after they reached land.
I'm unsure about how the pirates operate. If they tend to take the hostages off the ship and keep them in a safe house, there is a chance of a rescue, but if they keep the hostages on the ship, you effectively have the same problem as above (but would be easier to infiltrate SpecOp teams onto a moored ship instead of a moving one, but you are still pretty restricted in you avenues of attack and can be easily bottlenecked).
Even if the hostages are taken on land, a rescue operation would be extremely difficult and will involve a huge amount of men and resources.
These pirates are effectively an army in strength and equipment. The Americans sent their best against very similar opposition once and got badly mauled.
You can infiltrate some SpecOp teams in who could theoretically take down the guards and secure the hostages for minimal losses. The problem would be how to get the teams and hostages out again through a hostile city as we can safely assume the pirates won't be holding them on the beach if they take them ashore.
Not only does the PLAN lack the helo support to get that many people out at once, even if they did, you would be risking a 'black hawk down' replay.
Unless the PLA is ready to send in an invasion force, they won't be able to get the hostages out by force after they reach Somalia.
There are no good (and arguably, even viable) rescue options here. Thats why no-one else has tried it before. And before anyone start, the USN operation was very different as there was only one hostage in a small boat with minimal cover to allow the SEALs to pull that off. No way of repeating that with a freighter.
And with that example, I doubt the pirates will be all that keen to get off the ship even if you do cripple it.
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Edit added:
How effective is unplated kevlar against very close range AK47 rounds?
Typical shipboard combat may be too close for kevlar to be useful against automatic assault rifle fire.
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vesicles
Colonel
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy
Since they know where the ship is going, can they send a team via helo to set up a "silent ambush"? I mean they can have the SOFs in the water waiting for the ship to come. Then they can climb on board in the middle of night and BAM! It sounds like a Hollywood movie...
Since they know where the ship is going, can they send a team via helo to set up a "silent ambush"? I mean they can have the SOFs in the water waiting for the ship to come. Then they can climb on board in the middle of night and BAM! It sounds like a Hollywood movie...
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy
The main problem with that train of thought is that the pirates have their families with them. Any attack would be hi-risk for civilian casualties.
The main problem with that train of thought is that the pirates have their families with them. Any attack would be hi-risk for civilian casualties.
vesicles
Colonel
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy
what about a blockade? Surround the entire island. They can live in peace on the island. Whoever wants to come out will be closely watched. The moment they do something, we take them out!
what about a blockade? Surround the entire island. They can live in peace on the island. Whoever wants to come out will be closely watched. The moment they do something, we take them out!
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy
Umm, there are no roads in the ocean, there is no possible way of predicting the course so accurately as to make that a viable option.
Hell, even if you got men in scuba gear within touching range of the ship by some miracle, how those men are supposed to get aboard would be a huge problem. You could easily have most of the men not even make it onboard, and can even loose some to the props!
And speedboats are out if you want to do it without being notice.
The only way of getting enough men onboard without being noticed that I can even dream of would be to use specially adapted DSRVs that can latch onto the hull from underwater and then cut their way in through the hull.
Unless the PLAN has a couple of attack subs with such specialist gear and a spare SpecOp team or two on board tailing the task force (and I would rate that as likely as me winning the lottery, twice in a roll), thats not going to happen.
But if the piracy problem persists, that might become a viable area of research.
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Double post.
Umm, because most of these pirates were and still are fishermen maybe?
Even if some have given up the trade, the majority of shipping coming out of Somalia (which is NOT an island btw) are simple fishing boats.
Some people are arguing that the whole Somalia pirate issue only became so bad because of over fishing by foreign industrial fishing fleets depleting the local fish stock and leaving fishermen with little other choice.
Even if you can stomach the idea of sinking a hundred innocents for every pirate to make sure none get out, you will quickly cause a humanitarian catastrophe as the entire coastal population starve.
Since they know where the ship is going, can they send a team via helo to set up a "silent ambush"? I mean they can have the SOFs in the water waiting for the ship to come. Then they can climb on board in the middle of night and BAM! It sounds like a Hollywood movie...
Umm, there are no roads in the ocean, there is no possible way of predicting the course so accurately as to make that a viable option.
Hell, even if you got men in scuba gear within touching range of the ship by some miracle, how those men are supposed to get aboard would be a huge problem. You could easily have most of the men not even make it onboard, and can even loose some to the props!
And speedboats are out if you want to do it without being notice.
The only way of getting enough men onboard without being noticed that I can even dream of would be to use specially adapted DSRVs that can latch onto the hull from underwater and then cut their way in through the hull.
Unless the PLAN has a couple of attack subs with such specialist gear and a spare SpecOp team or two on board tailing the task force (and I would rate that as likely as me winning the lottery, twice in a roll), thats not going to happen.
But if the piracy problem persists, that might become a viable area of research.
-----------
Double post.
Umm, because most of these pirates were and still are fishermen maybe?
Even if some have given up the trade, the majority of shipping coming out of Somalia (which is NOT an island btw) are simple fishing boats.
Some people are arguing that the whole Somalia pirate issue only became so bad because of over fishing by foreign industrial fishing fleets depleting the local fish stock and leaving fishermen with little other choice.
Even if you can stomach the idea of sinking a hundred innocents for every pirate to make sure none get out, you will quickly cause a humanitarian catastrophe as the entire coastal population starve.
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