PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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Franklin said:
Hopefully we will see a air wing on the Liaoning early next year.
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IMHO, there is no way they will have a full air wing of 24 aircraft (two squadrons) by early next year...or, for that matter, anytime next year.

They have 6-9 pilots trained now in the initial phases of training. Clear weather landings and take-offs. They have just qualified the aircraft for take-off with various weights and ordinance and will have to train all of those pilots in that. They will at some time have to qualify all pilots in night operations (which they also just qualed the aircraft for), and then rougher weather operations, strike packages and formations, refueling, etc.

They have to produce that many aircraft to accomplish this too.

I personally expect to see perhaps six aircraft on deck by early next year, and perhaps 12 or more by the end of the year if they work hard and get enough time at sea. That would be a full squadron working up (either a training squadron itself, or their first actuual combat squadron). This would amount to significant progess for the PLAN.

Franklin said:
But for that to happen the Liaoning needs to go out to sea more often. Why does that ship need such a long time off between sea trials ?
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They have lots to learn. They have trained 6-9 pilots in rudimentary operations. They just qualed the aircraft in a couple of new areas. They have to digest that, establish any fixes or changes to their initial policies, and then establish a training regiment to get those pilots up to speed on those new things...even while they bring in new pilots to train in the initial areas. So...maybe three aircraft to allow the exsisting pilots to progress on the next techniques and get certified in that, and three aircraft to get new pilots going.

Then they increase on those numbers as they have more pilots and progress to the next level of flight capabilities for the aircraft and pilots. The first 12 aircraft squadron perhaps operating by the end of 2014. Four training up new pilots, four taking recently certified pilots in the initial phase to the next phase, and then four taking the most advanced pilots to the most advanced levels. Until they get all twelve in the 1st squadron trained in all levels of strike fighter operations off of the carrier. I expect they will reach that milestone...having the 1st squadron finished in early to mid 2015.

At the same time, starting sometime in 2015, perhaps in parallel with this, they will start working up their second squadron. By mid to end 2017 (maybe, at the outside, by the end of 2016 at the earliest) they may get both squadrons all trained and operating off of the carrier.

It's all going to be very exciting to watch.
 
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
Franklin said:
Hopefully we will see a air wing on the Liaoning early next year. But for that to happen the Liaoning needs to go out to sea more often. Why does that ship need such a long time off between sea trials ?
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It's probably waiting for more pilots qualifying the land-based CV landing/take-off school. Also, SOP needs to be further modified based on feedback from previous trials.
 
F

Franklin

Captain
Jeff Head said:
IMHO, there is no way they will have a full air wing of 24 aircraft (two squadrons) by early next year...or, for that matter, anytime next year.

They have 6-9 pilots trained now in the initial phases of training. Clear weather landings and take-offs. They have just qualified the aircraft for take-off with various weights and ordinance and will have to train all of those pilots in that. They will at some time have to qualify all pilots in night operations (which they also just qualed the aircraft for), and then rougher weather operations, strike packages and formations, refueling, etc.

They have to produce that many aircraft to accomplish this too.

I personally expect to see perhaps six aircraft on deck by early next year, and perhaps 12 or more by the end of the year if they work hard and get enough time at sea. That would be a full squadron working up (either a training squadron itself, or their first actuual combat squadron). This would amount to significant progess for the PLAN.

They have lots to learn. They have trained 6-9 pilots in rudimentary operations. They just qualed the aircraft in a couple of new areas. They have to digest that, establish any fixes or changes to their initial policies, and then establish a training regiment to get those pilots up to speed on those new things...even while they bring in new pilots to train in the initial areas. So...maybe three aircraft to allow the exsisting pilots to progress on the next techniques and get certified in that, and three aircraft to get new pilots going.

Then they increase on those numbers as they have more pilots and progress to the next level of flight capabilities for the aircraft and pilots. The first 12 aircraft squadron perhaps operating by the end of 2014. Four training up new pilots, four taking recently certified pilots in the initial phase to the next phase, and then four taking the most advanced pilots to the most advanced levels. Until they get all twelve in the 1st squadron trained in all levels of strike fighter operations off of the carrier. I expect they will reach that milestone...having the 1st squadron finished in early to mid 2015.

At the same time, starting sometime in 2015, perhaps in parallel with this, they will start working up their second squadron. By mid to end 2017 (maybe, at the outside, by the end of 2016 at the earliest) they may get both squadrons all trained and operating off of the carrier.

It's all going to be very exciting to watch.
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I didn't think that 24 Flankers was possible for next year but a air wing of 12 to 16 Flankers should be possible for next year. And is there any news about that long distance journey of the Liaoning that supposed to take place at the end of the year? The end of the year is now very close.
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Franklin said:
Hopefully we will see a air wing on the Liaoning early next year. But for that to happen the Liaoning needs to go out to sea more often. Why does that ship need such a long time off between sea trials ?
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Considering that they don't have any tutor and have to reinvent the wheel all the time, they progress beyond my wildest dream . Safety is paramount better take it slow. It is not easy to build carrier operation from scratch
Anyway Hongjian at CDF just posted what could be the 3rd and 4th pre serial model

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In the last trial they perform 100 sorties which is a lot
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China’s first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, has returned to its home port after its longest sea trial to date, during which over 100 sorties with its Shenyang J-15 fighters took place.

In a statement on its web site, China’s defence ministry announced what appears to be rapid progress in flight testing with the ship, which it has designated as a platform for researching carrier operations.

“During the tests, the ship-borne J-15 fighters made 100-odd sorties in all, conducting the tests of such subjects as taking-off with maximum payload along the long and short runways on the aircraft carrier, arresting-cable-controlled landing with maximum payload, and multi-weapon configuration take-off and landing.”

In addition, the warship appears to have recovered and launched aircraft at short intervals, suggesting the navy is exploring techniques and procedures for rapid sortie generation.

This was the ship’s longest duration sea trial since its maiden voyage in October 2012. The Liaoning was previously the Soviet-era carrier Varyag, which China has refurbished.


Beijing’s carrier ambitions were ambiguous until late last year, when the Liaoning became the first Chinese warship to operate fixed-wing aircraft. Since then senior officials have become increasingly vocal about plans to develop more, and larger, carriers.

Chinese defence enthusiast websites have published images allegedly taken in a Chinese shipyard that purport to show a hull section of a future aircraft carrier.

In July, China announced that it had certified its first pilots and deck crew for aircraft carrier operations, following a 25-day training deployment of the Liaoning.

The certifications were awarded to five pilots and an unstated number of landing signal officers, after they were tested on skills related to the operation of fixed-wing aircraft from a warship.
 
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andyhugfan

andyhugfan

Banned Idiot
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Qianzhan.com said in its report yesterday: China has to put an end to its old practice of following others countries’ footsteps. China will conduct RnD of the first 180,000-ton double hull aircraft carrier in the world.

Sources say that through meticulous engineering and mechanical analysis, China will conduct research and development of the first 180,000-ton double hull aircraft carrier in the world.
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LOLWUT
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Sey what?
previous.gif
Now way.. no how.. by the four years ago I posted a very similar rendering of the alleged carrier to be built. Nothing more than fan boi dreams..

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/general-pictures/fan-art-ps-cg-images-4-4494.html#post107986

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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
bd popeye said:
Sey what?
previous.gif
Now way.. no how.. by the four years ago I posted a very similar rendering of the alleged carrier to be built. Nothing more than fan boi dreams..

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/general-pictures/fan-art-ps-cg-images-4-4494.html#post107986

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Someone has taken the fan art from four years ago and made a news story out of it. I do not believe for an instant that the PLAN or the PRC is even so much as considering this.
 
kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Jeff Head said:
Someone has taken the fan art from four years ago and made a news story out of it. I do not believe for an instant that the PLAN or the PRC is even so much as considering this.
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nope.. because it would be silly. This is not ancient times where you can do whatever your heart pleases and have thousands of slaves work for free until they die. Technically can PLAN build that? probably.... but it would be a terrible ROI and would be too expensive to build w/o sacrificing many other significant aspect of the military budget.

To build something like this requires almost a complete modification of shipbuilding methods and supporting infrastructure. It's also not very little practical and offers very little that 2 separate 80K-100K CVs or CVN can't do.

There is a reason why supercarriers don't go past a certain size or length and it's because once you past a certain threshold in size and weight the return on investment is diminished and the asset goes on a diminishing return in capabilities and effectiveness. Heck can something like this even transit the Suez?
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
kwaigonegin said:
There is a reason why supercarriers don't go past a certain size or length and it's because once you past a certain threshold in size and weight the return on investment is diminished and the asset goes on a diminishing return in capabilities and effectiveness. Heck can something like this even transit the Suez?
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Agreed 100%, which is why I responded to it in the same fashion as you. The PLAN and PRC are not even considering this...nor would they ever.

This is someone seeing a piece of fan art and then making a news story out of it which doesn't exist.
 
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