PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Intrepid said:

We saw already a new layout based on the existing housing at the electronics test facility.

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Yes, although it is uncertain if the new layout is for 001A or 002.

Furthermore, it is unknown if that new layout will actually change the footprint of the island to a smaller one rather than merely reshaping the outside of the island while retaining the same overall area it takes up on the flight deck. (Personally I think it will be smaller but we just don't know yet until we see the real thing)

Deino said:

and the next module ...

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Just noticed that they did not only add another segment on the front but also simultaneously another one on the flight deck.

delft said:

The speeds are lower than those of high speed railways and you can easily design and test rail and shuttle for the forces involved.

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What matters is NOT the speed, but the curvature. The curve up the ramp is much sharper than any high speed rail can tolerate. And making shuttle go past the curve is NOT trivial. The only ways to do that is either allowing extra space in the curve or make the shuttle bend (and/or combinations thereof). And you need to make everything works in high speed/high stress environment. It's much simpler and reliable just to keep it straight.

As per Blitzo's comment that ski ramp/catapult combination is not likely because no one used this design before, I am not convinced. Simply stated, no one else has the need, but PLAN does. The existing operators of carriers either already have catapult --- hence there is no need, or does not have catapult technology -- hence the point is moot. Building a carrier is expensive, so when fitting in an untested technology, you optimally want your existing hardware works. The combo ski ramp/catapult allow you to do that. At the time US/UK developed catapult, carrier aircraft can take off without catapult, so that was not an issue. While I do think combo ski-ramp/catapult is not likely for 001A, that is due to the fact that land based test facility for catapult is build too late for fitting in catapults to 001A likely. This does not mean that they wouldn't try a combo solution for 002 though.

nemo said:

As per Blitzo's comment that ski ramp/catapult combination is not likely because no one used this design before, I am not convinced. Simply stated, no one else has the need, but PLAN does. The existing operators of carriers either already have catapult --- hence there is no need, or does not have catapult technology -- hence the point is moot. Building a carrier is expensive, so when fitting in an untested technology, you optimally want your existing hardware works. The combo ski ramp/catapult allow you to do that. At the time US/UK developed catapult, carrier aircraft can take off without catapult, so that was not an issue. While I do think combo ski-ramp/catapult is not likely for 001A, that is due to the fact that land based test facility for catapult is build too late for fitting in catapults to 001A likely. This does not mean that they wouldn't try a combo solution for 002 though.

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In other words, it comes down to whether the domestic industry will be able to build a sufficiently capable catapult, yes?
There would be no reason why they would not seek to build a catapult that is powerful enough, or if it turned out that a catapult initially was insufficiently powerful, I think it would make more sense to simply lengthen the catapult a little rather than stick a ski jump on the front end of it.

But what I said was not that the configuration was "not likely" because no one used it before -- I said it did not deserve serious consideration because no one else had adopted the configuration before.
To expand on that, my point is that I think there is insufficient premises and evidence or rumours for us on this particular thread to seriously entertain the idea that the Chinese Navy is looking to adopt such a configuration. If we had a few rumours from the Chinese BBS that maybe the Navy was considering such a configuration then that would change everything, but without that kind of premise to work on, the idea of a ski jump+catapult combination merely becomes an interesting engineering thought experiment.

If one really wants to discuss this at length, please feel free to start an independent thread about it.
Because over the years there's always been a few members who throw up the idea of a ski jump + catapult configuration in this thread (or one of its predecessor threads) and it always causes a multipage long debate between two sides, one of which who thinks the idea could work and the other who says it is impractical for real world use when easier alternatives exist... and neither side can fully disprove the other because the only way to test it. And it always ends up clogging the primary carrier thread.

Latest update from Huangdicun via GE... however it is from four months ago, but hey we take what we can get.

A lot of the structures surrounding the catapults appeared to have finished construction, and have been buried underground (compared to photos from last year), and work on the catapults was commencing at this point.

More interestingly, is the fact that tarmac is definitely being laid down around and infront of the catapults, and are in the process of being joined to the current/existing airfield at three points (boxed in red). I think this is virtual confirmation that the catapults are meant to be the Chinese Navy's equivalent of the USN's lakehurst facility; at least to the degree that both will have land based catapults for launching aircraft from as test/trials.

Given the pace of construction, I can imagine both catapults being finished by year's end, though it may take until early next year for us to get clear satellite pictures of it.

nemo said:

What matters is NOT the speed, but the curvature.

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Give the cat upper and lower rails and let the distance between the two be governed by the curvature. Give the shuttle two pairs of wheels on the upper rail - because there is an upwards component of the force during a launch - and give it one pair on the lower rails.

The next two posts document what the Chinese indigenous crrier has done through 2015 and thus far in 2016. It will also punctuate why I believe that the carrier will not officially launch until late 2017 at the earliest, and more likely 2018.

Here are five pictures from mostly last year detailing progress:



Through this period we saw the hull growing up to the hanger deck and then the hanger being placed.

This second post details later events, mostly this year in 2016 here into mid-May. Where we have seen the sections for the flight deck overhang being prepared and the first two placed, and then further extension of the forward part of the vessel up to that deck.



The last pic shows the approximate progress to date.

They still have to extend the flight deck out over its sponson completely to the stern, and then forward to the forward weapon sponson on that side. They then have to add that sponson and the other weapons and auxillary sponsons around the ship.

Then they have to build the rest of the flight deck forward including the ski jump.

At some point during, or fter all of this, they will add the island.

Finally, they have a LOT of internal wiring, structure, HVAC/Plumbing and work to do interior to the ship to hook it all together.

Only then (normally) will the vessel be launched. I believe they have over year's worth of work to do that...as much as two from this point.

Then they will spend months, perhaps a year completing the outfitting once it is launched before it goes to sea for its intial builders trials.

We will watch that happen...but there is no rushing it.

New images ...

Deino said:

New images ...

View attachment 27822 View attachment 27823 View attachment 27824

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Yep.

Now showing those lifts we saw happening earlier set in place.

They have several more lifts needed for the full width carrier deck, both aft of where they started and forward of where they are now.

They also have several lifts toward the bow where we should soon start seeing the ski-jump take shape.

Exciting times....but one thing MUST be clear to even the most enthusiastic PLAN-boys now...this ship is not going to launch this year as quite a few forecasted in late 2015 and earlier this year.

Just not going to happen.