I'm actually not sure that's exactly what's going to happen, and if that is the trajectory it will be a very very slow trend, but this isn't the thread to discuss this particular topic.
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PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
- Thread starter bd popeye
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I'm actually not sure that's exactly what's going to happen, and if that is the trajectory it will be a very very slow trend, but this isn't the thread to discuss this particular topic.
The plant for steam cats, its accumulators and pipes, are more difficult to integrate to integrate into the flattop than that for EM cats, its accumulators and cables. A main factor is the difference in efficiency: electricity generation about 40%, accumulator about 90%, linear motor better than 50%, gives an efficiency about three times better than the steam cat.
It is thus much easier to build a STOBAR carrier prepared for EM cats. That is a serious alternative to forty years of maintaining a single steam cat equipped carrier. And you all know my preference for ski ramps with EM cats.
It is thus much easier to build a STOBAR carrier prepared for EM cats. That is a serious alternative to forty years of maintaining a single steam cat equipped carrier. And you all know my preference for ski ramps with EM cats.
No-one is sure what will happen. But political expectations are a necessary subject of consideration. And building a fleet of flattops is also a very very slow process.
And that's what I mean. I'm not sure if it's a reasonable political expectation, or perhaps I'm not sure China necessarily perceives that degree of multipolarity should be expected. Some degree of multipolarity is guaranteed, but maybe not the extent you were suggesting.
The plant for steam cats, its accumulators and pipes, are more difficult to integrate to integrate into the flattop than that for EM cats, its accumulators and cables. A main factor is the difference in efficiency: electricity generation about 40%, accumulator about 90%, linear motor better than 50%, gives an efficiency about three times better than the steam cat.
It is thus much easier to build a STOBAR carrier prepared for EM cats. That is a serious alternative to forty years of maintaining a single steam cat equipped carrier. And you all know my preference for ski ramps with EM cats.
I don't think anyone disagrees that EM cats are the superior technology by far. The question is whether the PLAN is willing to eat some costs to get the capability earlier with steam cats if EM cats aren't ready. If the EM cats aren't ready, I would put my money on them going for steam cats anyways. The cost of supporting one or two steam cats for their lifetime may be worth the value of developing their catapult operations training and readiness earlier. Who knows. They may even find a way to design the hull so that it can undergo a major refit half way through its lifetime so they don't actually have to support the maintenance of the steam cats for the full life of the carrier (if they deem it worth the costs).
There are 2 051Cs using Rif-M and 6 052Cs using it's cold launched VLS. How is that equivalent to building 10+ carriers? You are making my argument by saying that carriers are more important and built in limited numbers. If you are only going to built 3 carriers in 20 years and they have the strategic importance of carrier and the overall support/maintenance cost is really high. Then, the cost of maintaining 2 different types of catapults in comparison to the # of carriers is minimal when compared to the existence of 2 additional types of VLS just for 8 destroyers out of 20 or 30 destroyers that they have in service. They could have waited one or 2 years, then instead of building 4 more 052Cs, they would have been able to build just 052Ds and put the new universal VLS on them. But that's not what PLAN does.
So you are thinking they should not build carriers with catapults unless EMALS is ready? Clearly, PLAN doesn't think the way you think. Again, they didn't wait for the universal VLS is ready before building or acquiring ships with VLS.
In the end, you haven't responded to the main point here. PLAN has shown that it is willing to have interim options to build capability in short term even if it leads to higher cost of maintenance in the long term. You are arguing that you think it's a bad idea. This is something you need to take up with PLAn leadership rather than the rest of us.
The question here has never been about which technology is better and whether or not it's a good idea to have two lines of catapult across a limited number of carriers.
The debate has been that POP3 (who is a pretty good source imo) said PLAN is going for steam catapult first, which apparently got Engineer excited enough to be debating us for hours.
And our point has been that we can see PLAN making that decision because if they see enough value in getting a CATOBAR carrier as earlier as possible and learning the operation over the cost of maintaining two different types of catapult, then they will do it. They have shown in the past the willingness of going through with interim options for building capabilities in short term and training people. I'm sure they've had much longer discussions over this and have more data than we have.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
I think you've totally missing my entire point and have failed to realized what I was trying to say. EMALS IS the way of the future. I am in complete agreement and have never hinted nor alluded otherwise. I think I've made that quite clear HOWEVER the initial contention wasn't about whether EMALS is a good system or not but rather if IT will be put on PLAN carrier # 2 in which case I do not believe it will. I do believe they may put in in their first true indigenous full flat deck CV or CVN but that is a good 10 years away.
I also stated that while EMALS will become more widespread and adopted accordingly by various navies as the technology matures, steam cats will continue to be in use for many decades to come namely like you said due to the Nimitz class and a couple of other carriers floating around today that still has them. They still have many many decades to go before decomm.
BTW I appreciate your acknowledgement about me being a grease monkey because while I know my way around an airsaw and pneumatic shears I did also go to engineering school. M.E to be exact
Anyone who has served aboard any capital vessel has at one point or another gotten their hands, feet, face etc dirty.. literally. Even captain, CO, pilot etc will quickly lose respect of his crew if he is deemed or perceived to 'never been in the trenches'.
Miragedriver
Brigadier
We can see some of the barrel. By extrapolation I’d say 12?
by78
General
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To date, these are the best pictures I had of the CIWS Gun on the Liaoning:
When I do the math on these images and the arrangement of the barrells, it is clear to me that there are eleven.
That's why I call it a Type 1130 CIWS on my .
An eleven 30mm barralled gatlin gun firing at, or over, 10,000 rounds per minute.
When I do the math on these images and the arrangement of the barrells, it is clear to me that there are eleven.
That's why I call it a Type 1130 CIWS on my .
An eleven 30mm barralled gatlin gun firing at, or over, 10,000 rounds per minute.
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