PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Having no bomb farm is not a big disaster. They will just have to open the munitions elevator more often during flight ops. Which of course will inevitably slow things down a bit. It is inadvisable to have too many bombs and missile's laying around on the flight deck, so i don't think that they will reserve a spot on the flight deck to store the munitions. But does anyone know were the munitions elevator is on the Liaoning or even on the Admiral Kuznetsov ?

I remember seeing a photo here of the Liaoning crew erecting a barricade for emergency landings. But i can't find it anymore.

12 to 14 aircraft at all, 6 to 8 for CAP, only 6 for strike missions, some of them as tanker ... how many bombs do you need? I think, there is plenty space for a small number of bombs.

Franklin said:

Having no bomb farm is not a big disaster. They will just have to open the munitions elevator more often during flight ops. Which of course will inevitably slow things down a bit. It is inadvisable to have too many bombs and missile's laying around on the flight deck, so i don't think that they will reserve a spot on the flight deck to store the munitions. But does anyone know were the munitions elevator is on the Liaoning or even on the Admiral Kuznetsov ?

I remember seeing a photo here of the Liaoning crew erecting a barricade for emergency landings. But i can't find it anymore.

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The new USN Gerald R Ford class CVN has no bomb farm. The Bomb farm ie weapons staging area is now under the flight deck accessible by bomb elevators. This is a really big change for the USN.

Perhaps the PLAN has made some sort of similar modification to CV-16. Ya' never no!

Engineer said:

That intercooler is pretty large.


You can't turn boilers as well as steam-turbines on and off at a moment notice. They don't work like that.

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boilers no, but you can shut down the turbines. or simply de-clutch the turbines from the shaft, you can generate all the super heated steam you like, just don't use them

the technology is 100 years old my friend... HMS dreadnaught.

Engineer said:

That intercooler is pretty large.

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yes indeed, works only in power generation plants and ships. but +20% efficiency in hot and high climate. who can beat that?

GE couple years ago was fantasizing (they always hadthat fantasy) about build an intercooler into a engine for the commercial jet application. nutz.

There would have been enough space for munitions if the island was not so damn huge. They should definitely shrink it for the domestic variant.

i.e. said:

boilers no, but you can shut down the turbines. or simply de-clutch the turbines from the shaft, you can generate all the super heated steam you like, just don't use them

the technology is 100 years old my friend... HMS dreadnaught.

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Steam turbine ships of HMS Dreadnaught generation (pre-1914) typically had direct drive turbines without any gearing. High and low pressure turbines are usually connected to different shafts, so that there might be 4 shafts, but only 2 steam expansion loops. Chances are both shafts on one side must either run together or stop together, and can't be run individually. I understand in at least some ships of there are no clutches. Brakes are used to hold an idle shaft and turbine stationary with attached propeller dragging through the water.

Modern pressure fired, high temperature and high pressure boilers can go from ignition to producing steam at full rate in under 20 minutes. Not as fast as switching on diesels or gas turbine, but much faster than lighting boilers on even WWII era ships.

chuck731 said:

Steam turbine ships of HMS Dreadnaught generation (pre-1914) typically had direct drive turbines without any gearing. High and low pressure turbines are usually connected to different shafts, so that there might be 4 shafts, but only 2 steam expansion loops. Chances are both shafts on one side must either run together or stop together, and can't be run individually. I understand in at least some ships of there are no clutches. Brakes are used to hold an idle shaft and turbine stationary with attached propeller dragging through the water.

Modern pressure fired, high temperature and high pressure boilers can go from ignition to producing steam at full rate in under 20 minutes. Not as fast as switching on diesels or gas turbine, but much faster than lighting boilers on even WWII era ships.

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You are right. but how do you perform a full reverse?
they use a reverse turbines connect on the same shaft w the same boilers.

i.e. said:

You are right. but how do you perform a full reverse?
they use a reverse turbines connect on the same shaft w the same boilers.

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I assume on pure steam turbine ships of that era each of high and low pressure turbines had its own reverse stage. Steam would be shunted from forward stage to reverse stage on each turbine to turn both shafts backwards at the same time. Or perhaps only the high pressure stage has reverse capability, the low pressure stage would be stopped and bypassed if the ship needed to reverse.

I know on some ships where reciprocating steam engine is used together with steam turbines, the turbines can not be reversed. Instead they are stopped and reciprocating engine is used for reverse.

Regarding the Liaoning-Cowpens incident, a few more details


Carrier commander spoke to US ship captain after near collision

Liaoning commander had 'professional' conversation with Cowpens counterpart following close call between carrier escort and US cruiser

The captain of aircraft carrier Liaoning had a brief, "professional" conversation with the commanding officer of the USS Cowpens after the near collision earlier this month between the American warship and a Chinese vessel.

The radio discussion between the two captains was one of several new details about the December 5 incident reported yesterday by the Global Times, a tabloid newspaper affiliated with the People's Daily.

The paper, citing an unidentified person, said that the Liaoning's commanding officer, Zhang Zheng, spoke directly to the Cowpens captain after the US missile cruiser was forced to stop in the South China Sea to avoid a collision with a Chinese ship from the Liaoning squadron.

The person told the paper that the American ship was bound to get a warning, since the Chinese Maritime Safety Administration had declared a month-long entry ban on the area on December 3 to accommodate exercises by the carrier group.


The USS Cowpens. Photo: Jason Poplin
The US government has filed a formal protest over the incident, saying that the Cowpens was in international waters.

Two amphibious Chinese ships from the Liaoning squadron were sent to investigate after the US ship entered the drill area. One sounded a warning whistle, but it was ignored, the newspaper said.

The Chinese ships then sailed into the Cowpens' path to stop it, forcing the US captain to order a complete stop to avoid collision.

The newspaper also quoted an anonymous US defence official as saying that communications between the two sides was "very professional". It said another US defence official later told the Chinese side that maintaining communications could reduce the chance of mistakes.

The Chinese defence ministry has yet to issue a formal response to the naval close-call, but the Global Times has revealed numerous details about the incident for two consecutive days.

The newspaper said on Monday that the Cowpens had been getting too close to a drill, and said it was "coming to China's threshold and posing a threat to China's military security".

The Global Times said yesterday that the encounter appeared to have had no immediate impact on military ties between the two countries and China's East Sea Fleet is preparing to join the Rim of the Pacific Exercise next year, the world's largest international naval drills.

Jia Xiudong , a senior research fellow with the China Institute of International Studies, called the US "the bad guy who slung the first accusations".

Jia said the US Navy was aware of the drill and still made the dangerous decision to follow Liaoning because it was holding its first exercises in the South China Sea since being commissioned last year.

"How China reacted was normal and expected," Jia said.

An earlier version of this article misidentified Liaoning as a warship and USS Cowpens as a carrier. The error was introduced during editing process