PLAN 2nd & 3rd Aircraft Carrier wager & planning

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
IMHO, there is no way that the PRC will have two nuclear carriers in the water by 2030...simply no way.

I expect:

1 x Liaoning STOBAR
1 x Improved Liaoning but still STOBAR
1 x Conventionally powered CATOBAR

by 2030, which is in line with this thread and its wager. Maybe, and I mean just maybe they will have one more conventionally powered CATOBAR carrier building by 2030. Or perhaps...even more of a big maybe...perhaps one CVN building by 2030.

But I think, for logistical purposes and for learning that they will more likely have two of the same conventionally powered carriers before moving to nuclear power.

But as with all else...time will tell.
 
Last edited:

Ultra

Junior Member
I am with Jeff on this. I think they still havn't perfect the compact nuclear reactor design. We hear very little about their SSN or SSBN in news, which makes me wonder about the reliability of their nuclea reactors, which in turn could affect the design of their nuclear CVN.
 

delft

Brigadier
What, in this case, means conventionally powered? Steam or gas turbine electric?
As for nuclear - the expectation is that around 2020 the first Thorium Molten Salt reactor will be running. These promise to save a lot on installation weight and in lead shielding. Ten years later they might be available for aircraft carriers and cruisers.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
What, in this case, means conventionally powered? Steam or gas turbine electric?
As for nuclear - the expectation is that around 2020 the first Thorium Molten Salt reactor will be running. These promise to save a lot on installation weight and in lead shielding. Ten years later they might be available for aircraft carriers and cruisers.

A molten salt reactor on a sea faring vessel?!?
You're asking for disaster waiting to happen.
Those things haven't even been commercialized on a land reactor.
By the way if anything goes wrong with the core they will likely jettison the nuclear fuel into the sea instead of placing it into a drain tank like most designs suggest since the tank would be dead weight during normal operation.
Besides it probably would not generate enough power since a Thorium reactor with diameter of 5m×1m×2m can only generate 1000kw which is probably 1/1,000th the amount a US Super carrier generates.
 
Last edited:

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
molten salt reactors have many benefits and the US actually had one running for a number of years.
That said the Tech does not seem as suited to naval applications as conventional reactors which have the bonus of making drinking water.
In theory a MSR would be better suited for land use. and would demand years of study before they could be navalized. As I am known to be siding with the Doubters on a rapid new carrier. It seems given the issues associated a conventional is the better option.
 

Verum

Junior Member
When I first read Jeff's view I thought, this guy's too pessimistic. But then I realized that it's already 2015, only 15 years till 2030.

I do agree with him. 15 years is too soon for China to have a fully operational nuclear carrier, especially their nuclear submarines are still quite primitive compared to NATO and Russian counterparts. You need to be able to make an effective sub reactor before you can make one powerful enough to push a 80,000+ tons carrier at 30+ knots.

But having said that, it's not impossible that China have had planned or even began early stage construction on a nuclear carrier by then. Since China is putting a lot of money and effort into it. It would be hard to believe a country with such sophisticated heavy industry not able to come up with a nuclear carrier in 20 years.

So having one circling the globe by 2030 is a bit too soon, but 2040 is highly plausible.
 

Ultra

Junior Member
When I first read Jeff's view I thought, this guy's too pessimistic. But then I realized that it's already 2015, only 15 years till 2030.

I do agree with him. 15 years is too soon for China to have a fully operational nuclear carrier, especially their nuclear submarines are still quite primitive compared to NATO and Russian counterparts. You need to be able to make an effective sub reactor before you can make one powerful enough to push a 80,000+ tons carrier at 30+ knots.

But having said that, it's not impossible that China have had planned or even began early stage construction on a nuclear carrier by then. Since China is putting a lot of money and effort into it. It would be hard to believe a country with such sophisticated heavy industry not able to come up with a nuclear carrier in 20 years.

So having one circling the globe by 2030 is a bit too soon, but 2040 is highly plausible.



The news about the chinese navalized nuclear reactor is completely opaque, we know NOTHING about it so far. All we know is that rumor of an accident on board the Type 092 that happened almost 30 years ago. We don't know anything about their naval reactor design.

What we do know so far is the number of nuclear powered vessels they have constructed so far:

5 Type 091 SSN, 1 Type 092 SSBN, 6 Type 093 SSN, 5 Type 094 SSBN. So, 17 nuclear powered vessels so far. But only 2 generations of design lineage. The number and generation count - as the more you build and use, the more you understand and realize the faults and improve upon it. The accumulated experience also goes in a long way in how to improve the design.

That's not to say China cannot leapfrog and surprise everyone with more than 2 nuclear CVNs by 2030 - China currently outspent ANYONE on the planet in investing in nuclear technologies and reactor designs - not only in the number of reactors under construction (23!) but also the varieties of designs (CPR-1000, AP1000, EPR, CAP1400, ACPR1000, CANDU-60, VVER-1000). A lot of these technologies, designs and concepts would be translated into their military reactor design for sure, improve upon the reliability, safety, and production processes tremendously. More than anything, China has the most variety of reactor designs of any country so far.

This is actually quite similar to their the high speed train development - they have acquired the most variety of high speed train designs of any country on the planet -
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
; after acquiring and producing these high speed train sets locally, they are now starting to design and produce their own. They are starting to innovate.


Let's not forget how China tends to do things - when they do it, they throw everything in - China now has 19,369 km of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in total. The next country with the most HSR line is spain with only 3100 km so far, and Japan with 2664 km the third.



So whether 2030 we will see 2 or more nuclear CVNs is anyone's guess. I think the chance is 50/50. As they build more and more reactors of different designs, their technology and understanding will mature, accelerating their development on navalized nuclear reactor design.
 
Last edited:

delft

Brigadier
The time from the first reactor becoming critical to the launch of USS Nautilus was little more than ten years, but USS Enterprise came a considerable time later. The first Chinese molten salt reactor should appear around 2020.
A molten salt reactor installation is expected be considerably smaller than an uranium reactor of the same power. Fresh water production makes use of the waste heat from steam used for power production and it so not dependent on the type of reactor.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
This is actually quite similar to their the high speed train development - they have acquired the most variety of high speed train designs of any country on the planet -
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
; after acquiring and producing these high speed train sets locally, they are now starting to design and produce their own. They are starting to innovate.
It's also widely know that they still purchase the electric motors from Hitachi and have not developed their own core technology.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
It's also widely know that they still purchase the electric motors from Hitachi and have not developed their own core technology.

According to Wikipedia, the CRH380A bullet train's traction motor is manufactured by CSR Zhuzhou Electric Co. Their latest achievement is a cutting-edge, permanent magnet synchronous traction system that was developed by China CSR Corp at its Zhuzhou Institute in Hunan province.
 
Top