PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

BoraTas

Major
Registered Member
Exactly, ten years from now China will be so much further ahead economically and industrially as well that the US really can't compete anymore. The terrible 20s just mean that the inflection point is coming even earlier.


The main problems for Chinese foreign policy have been Trump, COVID and the Ukraine war. None of these has been started by Xi. Maybe he didn't handle them as well as possible, but the overall direction of Chinese foreign policy has been dictated by these events from outside the government's control
The US did lose an entire generation of equipment design cycle because of GWOT spending and GWOT-specific equipment procurement. For example, think of the Zumwalt and LCS. Even if these programs were not failures they would still be wasted resources and time. They were born out of USN's desire to insert itself into counter-insurgency (read: occupation) wars, which is an egregious idea on its own. The F-35, regardless of how capable it is, is a result of very dubious concepts (realize how 6th gen concepts are the opposite of what the F-35 is) and a horribly managed program too.

What US media doesn't want to mention is there is no return from that mistake. The decade of danger conveniently assumes they can make up for 16 years of wrong policy just because they realized the problem. It rests on the assumption that they can re-establish the technological lead and ramp up numbers faster than the PLA after 2030. I don't see why that should happen. The current situation was contributed heavily by the US being distracted but that doesn't mean it is temporary.
 

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
The nuclear umbrella concept is mainly put into place so that the countries brought under it do not go on and develop nuclear weapons of their own. For obvious reasons.

For a rather hilarious example, Ukraine and China have a nuclear security agreement stating that if Ukraine is attacked by nuclear weapons, China will have to defend them.

Personally, I'd view a possible Taiwan-US nuclear security agreement with somewhat the same hilarity..;)
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Many many more new platforms will release by 2030

Wing Long 3
KJ 3000 IRS plane
Type 096
Loyalman drone
Submarine Drone
DF 27 Hypersonic missile

I don't think the military budget too serious. The U.S might have 4x bigger budget than China. It doesn't equates to 4x more hardware than China. In fact, China is pumping out more hardware than the U.S with a much smaller budget
What most folks usually don't realized is that a substantial portion of the US defence budget goes to salaries, benefits, and other personnel related costs including overhead and bureaucracy.
An even bigger portion goes to maintenance and operations and since the US Armed Forces are deployed globally including forward deployments, overseas bases etc. it takes a sizeable chunk out.
Less than 1/4 of the defence budget actually goes to procurements and acquisitions.
Presumably PLA personnel cost goes per head is significantly lower than the US and operational expense would be miniscule by comparison as well.
A CSG alone cost over $20B in operating cost.
As such a bigger % of PLA's defence budget can be allocated to procurement initiatives.
But as China's numerical fleet and aircraft expand, the operating cost will exponentially increase as well.
It cost a LOT more to operate 10 ships on overseas deployment than 30 ships basking at a port.
 

tphuang

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Is Vietnam a reliable ally of the Quad now
Quad is a meaningless "organization" to make certain politicians happy. If the question is whether or not Vietnam is siding with America, I would say they are quite neutral. And even if they overtly side with America, It won't matter in a real country.

What people don't seem to appreciate is that there isn't a bunch of countries vs a bunch of countries. There is China vs America. No one else really moves the needle all that much.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The US did lose an entire generation of equipment design cycle because of GWOT spending and GWOT-specific equipment procurement. For example, think of the Zumwalt and LCS. Even if these programs were not failures they would still be wasted resources and time. They were born out of USN's desire to insert itself into counter-insurgency (read: occupation) wars, which is an egregious idea on its own. The F-35, regardless of how capable it is, is a result of very dubious concepts (realize how 6th gen concepts are the opposite of what the F-35 is) and a horribly managed program too.

What US media doesn't want to mention is there is no return from that mistake. The decade of danger conveniently assumes they can make up for 16 years of wrong policy just because they realized the problem. It rests on the assumption that they can re-establish the technological lead and ramp up numbers faster than the PLA after 2030. I don't see why that should happen. The current situation was contributed heavily by the US being distracted but that doesn't mean it is temporary.

Let's suppose the GWOT didn't happen and that US military procurement continued on a trajectory where China was seen as the primary future threat.

Over the past 20 years, this would only have slowed the rate that the military balance moved in China's favour, not stopped it.

And arguably it would make little difference to the overall outcome in 2030, where China will likely have outright air superiority over the entire First Island Chain including all of Japan.

All those additional US submarines, carriers, bombers, NGADs and missiles would still be small in number compared to the Chinese military in 2030 and would still have to operate from a few distant, vulnerable island bases.

This assumes that past Chinese military development remains the same, where the strategic environment was seen as benign until 2017 with the election of Trump. Then we saw the start of aggressive anti-China rhetoric and policies, and the end of US strategic reassurance towards China. In retrospect, we can see this is when the Chinese military buildup kicked into high gear.

---

In the absence of the GWOT and China being treated as the main threat to the USA, then arguably China's military buildup would have been triggered prior to 2017. So we would be looking at Chinese military superiority even sooner.

For example, suppose Chinese carrier development actually started 10 years earlier. So by 2020, China might already have 4-5 carriers and the first nuclear CATOBAR carrier.

And in an alternative 2020-2025 Chinese naval shipbuilding plan, China might already be building 4 carriers.

So perhaps it was a good thing for the USA (and its military advantage) - that they didn't focus on China until 2017.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
What most folks usually don't realized is that a substantial portion of the US defence budget goes to salaries, benefits, and other personnel related costs including overhead and bureaucracy.
An even bigger portion goes to maintenance and operations and since the US Armed Forces are deployed globally including forward deployments, overseas bases etc. it takes a sizeable chunk out.
Less than 1/4 of the defence budget actually goes to procurements and acquisitions.
Presumably PLA personnel cost goes per head is significantly lower than the US and operational expense would be miniscule by comparison as well.
A CSG alone cost over $20B in operating cost.
As such a bigger % of PLA's defence budget can be allocated to procurement initiatives.
But as China's numerical fleet and aircraft expand, the operating cost will exponentially increase as well.
It cost a LOT more to operate 10 ships on overseas deployment than 30 ships basking at a port.
That's just incorrect. The US has vastly bloated costs because it has a political system riven with corruption and its industrial economy has been entirely hollowed out. It's not just procurement costs that are low in China because of its vast and efficient industrial economy, although the Chinese MIC certainly benefits greatly from that, all costs are low because of how China is structured and governed.

Defense companies in China are entirely state-owned, meaning they provide arms and munitions basically at cost because the customer is also the owner. Defense companies in the US are profit-driven, meaning they are heavily incentivized to rip off the US government coming and going; add to that the parliamentary corruption in the US and government capture by large corporations and the grift gets turbocharged.

Maintenance is just another function of industry. Chinese warships are regularly maintained without any untoward cost increases because it's the same SOEs doing maintenance in the same efficient and well-run shipyards. No grifting allowed.

Personnel costs in the US are out of control because costs like healthcare are out of control. That's just another part of the dysfunction and corruption of the US political system. The US is unique among developed countries in having an entirely privatized healthcare system, and the results are predictable: grift, corruption, waste, theft, not to mention the horrific human toll when people are denied and screwed out of healthcare. No reason it should just be defense contractors grifting the Pentagon, why shouldn't the American "healthcare" system get its slice of the cake?

The point I'd like to get across to Americans is that you have no hope of competing with China militarily or otherwise. None whatsoever. There is no "decade of concern" or "window of opportunity" or collection of magic acronyms coming to save you. It looks bad for you today and it's going to look worse tomorrow; that's going to be true in perpetuity.
 
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