PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is where things get a bit less certain.

The US can rely on submarines for naval dominance, and China doesn’t yet have a full response.

In a shooting war, the US can degrade China’s construction capacity via strikes from submarines and local bases, whereas China will struggle to strike the US mainland conventionally.

If you look at how many submarines the US has and can build, it doesn't look favourable.
Technological trends also are going against large nuclear submarines, with big data and large numbers of automated detection platforms.
And the land-attack capability of US submarines is limited to slow, non-stealthy Tomahawk class missiles.


That means US response to a blockade and degradation of Taiwan can be to blockade and degrade mainland China.

The Chinese response has to be to force the US out of the second island chain, including their bases and submarines.

The questions roughly are:
  1. Does China have the capacity to blockade/degrade Taiwan? (Yes)
  2. Does the US have the capacity to blockade/degrade China using its submarines and local bases? (Yes)
  3. Does China have the capacity to destroy the US submarines and local bases? (Probably not yet)

3 years ago, I would have agreed with point 3

However, I think the balance has shifted significantly, so that China does have the ability to keep US submarines at bay and also keep the US from using local bases in the Western Pacific. And when we're talking about preventing the US from using local bases in the Western Pacific, we're essentially talking about Chinese capability to impose an air-sea blockade on Japan and the Philippines.

In the event of a blockade, Taiwan, Japan and the Philippines are small densely populated island(s) with no natural resources and dependent on imports of food and fuel. They would collapse far faster than China which is geographically the same size as the Continental US and can therefore be largely self sufficient.

So I reckon China would largely be able to protect its industry and churn out significantly more weapons.

===

But I doubt that the US would end up striking the Chinese mainland, because then you end up on the nuclear escalation ladder, and China now has enough nukes to credibly threaten MAD. Call it 250+ warheads capable of reaching the USA now. 3 years ago, there were less than 100? warheads.

You can see how careful the US is with respect to Russia.

My best guess is that there would be a whole lot of sanctions, but no direct military involvement.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Agreed that the key conflict will be outside the first island chain. That’s where US strikes will be launched from, and where blockades will be implemented.

China’s focus on the first island chain makes sense if it thinks the US won’t engage, or thinks it can outlast any US blockade. If the US is going to seriously engage though, then the question of the second island chain and beyond becomes relevant.

The focus on the 1st Island Chain also means China can impose its own blockade on Taiwan, Japan and the Philippines for example.

If Japan and the Philippines face the prospect of a a crippling blockade that the US Navy cannot break, then neutrality is the best option for Japan and the Philippines.
 

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
But I doubt that the US would end up striking the Chinese mainland, because then you end up on the nuclear escalation ladder, and China now has enough nukes to credibly threaten MAD. Call it 250+ warheads capable of reaching the USA now. 3 years ago, there were less than 100? warheads.

You can see how careful the US is with respect to Russia.

My best guess is that there would be a whole lot of sanctions, but no direct military involvement.

Unless tactical nukes are involved, strikes against Chinese military facilities, installations and civilian infrastructure certainly isn't off limits for the US&LC, especially in an wider, if not all-out war in the WestPac/IndoPac.

It's fair game situation for all sides involved, after all. Can't expect punching others without ever getting punched back in a peer-to-peer conflict.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Unless tactical nukes are involved, strikes against Chinese military facilities, installations and civilian infrastructure certainly isn't off limits for the US&LC, especially in an wider, if not all-out war in the WestPac/IndoPac.

It's fair game situation for all sides involved, after all. Can't expect punching others without ever getting punched back in a peer-to-peer conflict.
China doesn't have to and shouldn't play the tactical nuke game. If US use tactical nukes on Chinese targets, China can and will reply with strategic nukes on Guam and Hawaii. Let the Americans decide on the response to that.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Unless tactical nukes are involved, strikes against Chinese military facilities, installations and civilian infrastructure certainly isn't off limits for the US&LC, especially in an wider, if not all-out war in the WestPac/IndoPac.

It's fair game situation for all sides involved, after all. Can't expect punching others without ever getting punched back in a peer-to-peer conflict.

We're looking at over 200,000 aimpoints on mainland China. How many munitions can the US actually get through?

If China is winning, then tactical nukes aren't needed.

If China is losing, then forcing the US into a land war on the Korean peninsula looks like an attractive option, as the US (and South Korea) would likely lose such a land war, given that it would be a combination of Taiwan blockade and Ukraine land war.

Alternatively, Palestine or Ukraine are other options.

===

But let's say that *somehow* China manages to lose in a war over the Korean peninsula.
French and Russian doctrine is that an invasion of their homelands will trigger a nuclear response.
We can expect something similar on the China-North Korean border.

But again, let's say China doesn't go nuclear and *loses* in some manner.

What then in the aftermath?

China comes back in 20 years seeking vengeance like what we saw with Germany.

My guess is just 5 years for China to completely recover economically and another 5 years to rebuild the pre-war military. Then in the following years, an even larger military is built up, leveraging the size of the Chinese economy.

So how does the USA ever win?
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
We're looking at over 200,000 aimpoints on mainland China. How many munitions can the US actually get through?

If China is winning, then tactical nukes aren't needed.

If China is losing, then forcing the US into a land war on the Korean peninsula looks like an attractive option, as the US (and South Korea) would likely lose such a land war, given that it would be a combination of Taiwan blockade and Ukraine land war.

Alternatively, Palestine or Ukraine are other options.

===

But let's say that *somehow* China manages to lose in a war over the Korean peninsula.
French and Russian doctrine is that an invasion of their homelands will trigger a nuclear response.
We can expect something similar on the China-North Korean border.

But again, let's say China doesn't go nuclear and *loses* in some manner.

What then in the aftermath?

China comes back in 20 years seeking vengeance like what we saw with Germany.

My guess is just 5 years for China to completely recover economically and another 5 years to rebuild the pre-war military. Then in the following years, an even larger military is built up, leveraging the size of the Chinese economy.

So how does the USA ever win?
The same way they have already been trying to win. Balkanize China into as many pieces as possible. That's why the Tibetan rebellion movement was started by the CIA after WW2. And then obviously the Xinjiang nonsense. And CIA even tried reexamining and testing out "Manchuria" and "Inner Mongolia" as candidates for rebellion in recent years, though that hasn't gained much traction and funding.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
The third point becomes operationally effective for China by next year, which is also why the US is trying to accelerate a military conflict, but this also isn't taking into consideration the rest of the Axis of Resistance at play either (especially Russia, Iran and North Korea).

What happen next year? I think it is already effective (3rd point) in FIC and somewhat in SIC ... true, not in open ocean (yet)
 

montyp165

Senior Member
What happen next year? I think it is already effective (3rd point) in FIC and somewhat in SIC ... true, not in open ocean (yet)
Supply of necessary armaments both strategic and tactical as well as self-sufficiency in critical semi-conductor production (the most important bit) will be achieved by then, which means any attempt by the US for a preemptive strike and blockade can be not only readily countered, the PLA would be able to conduct a sustained strategic push past the SIC if necessary.

The same way they have already been trying to win. Balkanize China into as many pieces as possible. That's why the Tibetan rebellion movement was started by the CIA after WW2. And then obviously the Xinjiang nonsense. And CIA even tried reexamining and testing out "Manchuria" and "Inner Mongolia" as candidates for rebellion in recent years, though that hasn't gained much traction and funding.
The Taliban experience should have been warning enough to westoids about such assumptions.
 
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tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
Unless tactical nukes are involved, strikes against Chinese military facilities, installations and civilian infrastructure certainly isn't off limits for the US&LC, especially in an wider, if not all-out war in the WestPac/IndoPac.

It's fair game situation for all sides involved, after all. Can't expect punching others without ever getting punched back in a peer-to-peer conflict.

China will have to find ways to strike mainland US, that will be a deterrent against strikes inside mainland. But I doubt that deterrence will work. If US and China fights, thats world war 3. its going to be all out war without nukes. US has advantage in terms of being too far for China to strike while it can use bases from its allies to strike China. China has to develop ways to strike US mainland to even the stakes.
 

doggydogdo

Junior Member
Registered Member
US has advantage in terms of being too far for China to strike while it can use bases from its allies to strike China. China has to develop ways to strike US mainland to even the stakes.
China could just strike those bases and cut off US presence in the Asia-Pacific, bringing the war to the US is too costly and realistically isn't going to achieve anything.
 
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