PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

M

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
yungho said:
I see the burden of communism and Maoism that still looms large over China today, when in reality the country has largely moved on from that era. The party still bears the burden of the 'bad' that occurred under Mao, which they haven't been able to shed despite the 'good'. I think there needs to be a soft reset to correct this, so the government can fully say X,Y,Z was bad and we learned from it instead of doing so in a roundabout way. The elite still holds power, but under a different guise leaving the messy history behind. Now, people will argue that the communists have succeeded in this already, but I don't see it.
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Already happened (Deng saying Mao 7/3 good/bad).
yungho said:
Essentially I'm arguing for a re-branded government, rather than a seemingly left wing party that still bears the burdens of the past. This will give China a government that more accurately reflects the changes in reality and prevent any detractors from referring to 'oh you actually this 50 years ago and it was bad'. I see Russia as an example of this, where they can confidently address the faults of the USSR (like giving Crimea to Ukraine), but still maintain the same agenda.
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One can argue they 'kinda' rebranded, but anyways, the bigger thing is that the CPC and the chinese government need to improve media as well as communication (to show all of their positive achievements, and what changes they have made and plans on making).
yungho said:
Now regarding elections or not, I don't think it really matter ironically.
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Believe they been pushing this, or more like more publicity and info about it (NPC and the two session meetings).
 
Y

yungho

Junior Member
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
But how did the marketing change anything of substance to Russia? Has it's repudation of it's past system, namely, the Soviet System brought about a legacy that can be remembered positively by the Russian people? Poll after poll showed in Russia that Russians actually saw their Soviet past in a positive light in comparison to the death, destruction, mayhem, and criminality the new "democratic oligarchic" Russia has been ushered into which as you must know why Putin the very product and result of the Soviet system has essentially remain in power for this long. He brought order out of chaos; respect and fear for Russian power when it was debased, ridiculed, and bastardized by the powers preceded him.

If what you're asking for China is to repudiate it's system, the man, and the party that brought China out of the doldrums so that in your estimation and perception will somehow garner some brownie points from your western patrons, then am afraid you're sorely mistaken. Such assumptions are based on surrender monkey theory where our approval has to be wrested and approved from the very western countries that led to the destruction of the country to begin with. I am sorry but I ain't buying what you're selling.

What's next on the menu? We need to adopt the English language as another official language of China so that maybe just maybe western remaining ambivalence, disinterest in learning Chinese language is one of the key obstacles to understanding China or China being misunderstood? Or perhaps, China should then shut it's trap whenever U.S. and her minions send ships, planes in and around China's periphery; or maybe China should stop investing in her defense, gut it's R&D, allow U.S. and western demands in "reforming China's" so-called unfair trade practices...I mean where's your limit? Once you cave in to their dumb dumb demand that's not only demeaning, but a repudation of what Mao Zedong, and the party along with numerous Chinese sacrifices did for the country by essentially doing away with the name What's next? And where does it stop? Have you not learned anything at all from the bitter history of your country?

Are the sacrifices of your ancestors that worthless to you? I mean, it sounds to me that you're life is perhaps being inconvenient by the tensions emanating from the current rivalry created and amplified by the West led by the U.S. this is my interpretation and reading off of your expressed written posts. And if this is the case am sorry dude, yours and mine inconvenience are immaterial to the historic long held goals by the majority of Chinese which is the rejuvenation of China and the ultimate reunification of Taiwan back to the mainland under one unquestioned roof.
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There is nostalgia for the confederacy in the US. Does that mean the lives of Americans, particularly white Americans, living in the south was positive? There is nostalgia for Japanese rule in Taiwan. Does that mean Taiwanese lives under Japanese colonialism was positive? There is nostalgia and activism for Tibet under the rule of the Dalai Lhama. Does that mean Tibetian lives under theocratic was positive?

You mistakenly correlate my opinion for 'oh we must follow the west' and take it to an extreme. When did I ever mention the western world in my post? What matters is the current leadership acting in the best interest of the population and what could they do better. The west is irrelevant to this conversation. The party has felt the need to lean on to their early communist legacy for legitimacy, which I don't think is an effective strategy.

Michaelsinodef said:
Already happened (Deng saying Mao 7/3 good/bad).

One can argue they 'kinda' rebranded, but anyways, the bigger thing is that the CPC and the chinese government need to improve media as well as communication (to show all of their positive achievements, and what changes they have made and plans on making).

Believe they been pushing this, or more like more publicity and info about it (NPC and the two session meetings).
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I agree, but I think they need to go a step further. The fact we are still debating Mao is ridiculous. I don't think the party can ever move on from Mao even though they've changed drastically.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
yungho said:
There is nostalgia for the confederacy in the US. Does that mean the lives of Americans, particularly white Americans, living in the south was positive? There is nostalgia for Japanese rule in Taiwan. Does that mean Taiwanese lives under Japanese colonialism was positive? There is nostalgia and activism for Tibet under the rule of the Dalai Lhama. Does that mean Tibetian lives under theocratic was positive?

You mistakenly correlate my opinion for 'oh we must follow the west' and take it to an extreme. When did I ever mention the western world in my post? What matters is the current leadership acting in the best interest of the population and what could they do better. The west is irrelevant to this conversation. The party has felt the need to lean on to their early communist legacy for legitimacy, which I don't think is an effective strategy.


I agree, but I think they need to go a step further. The fact we are still debating Mao is ridiculous. I don't think the party can ever move on from Mao even though they've changed drastically.
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yungho said:
The party has felt the need to lean on to their early communist legacy for legitimacy, which I don't think is an effective strategy.
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What are you talking about? Again provide concrete vitrifiable example(s) to support this claim of yours. The legitimacy of the party remains strong, and positive for the rest of the country (not just for historical reasons which it be celebrated till the end of times) because under the party of the CPC the hundreds of millions of lives of China has never been better in it's almost 5,000 year history and this is undisputable fact, so the charge that the party simply relies on it's herculean effort of uniting the whole of mainland China from warlord era, chaos, and foreign occupations is beyond stupid and is purposely ignorant and ignoring of what the party has done and is continuing to do for the country.

As for your nonsensical b.s. about Americans, Japanese, etc. longing for nostalgia are all red herring because till this very day, George Washington is still considered by most Americans as the father of their country despite the man being the epitome of hypocrisy a.k.a. slave owning, freedom depriving, genocidal policy making first U.S. President.

Mao Zedong remains a controversial figure outside of China because the west insist to make it so and not because of Chinese people demand. There are Chinese that's citizens of the west who keeps or want to dredge up any negative events to be attributed to Mao, the party in order to delegitimize the very system that brought unprecedented level of success to China because the end goal is to upend the party and bring about western version of politics into the country.

Your criticism of the party ought to be coupled with some semblance of recommendation or alternative to the current system. And I am going to keep stressing that you're wanting a democratic western system until you come up or provide an alternative system that you think is more suitable and needed in today's China. You have thus far failed to come up with anything other than critiquing the supposed inadequacies of the current system.
 
Y

yungho

Junior Member
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
What are you talking about? Again provide concrete vitrifiable example(s) to support this claim of yours. The legitimacy of the party remains strong, and positive for the rest of the country (not just for historical reasons which it be celebrated till the end of times) because under the party of the CPC the hundreds of millions of lives of China has never been better in it's almost 5,000 year history and this is undisputable fact, so the charge that the party simply relies on it's herculean effort of uniting the whole of mainland China from warlord era, chaos, and foreign occupations is beyond stupid and is purposely ignorant and ignoring of what the party has done and is continuing to do for the country.

As for your nonsensical b.s. about Americans, Japanese, etc. longing for nostalgia are all red herring because till this very day, George Washington is still considered by most Americans as the father of their country despite the man being the epitome of hypocrisy a.k.a. slave owning, freedom depriving, genocidal policy making first U.S. President.

Mao Zedong remains a controversial figure outside of China because the west insist to make it so and not because of Chinese people demand. There are Chinese that's citizens of the west who keeps or want to dredge up any negative events to be attributed to Mao, the party in order to delegitimize the very system that brought unprecedented level of success to China because the end goal is to upend the party and bring about western version of politics into the country.

Your criticism of the party ought to be coupled with some semblance of recommendation or alternative to the current system. And I am going to keep stressing that you're wanting a democratic western system until you come up or provide an alternative system that you think is more suitable and needed in today's China. You have thus far failed to come up with anything other than critiquing the supposed inadequacies of the current system.
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Why do you think Mao is not a controversial figure to Chinese?

Red herring? I was simply responding to your point of Russian nostalgia for the Soviet era, showing how people can be nostalgic for a less than perfect past.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
yungho said:
Why do you think Mao is not a controversial figure to Chinese?

Red herring? I was simply responding to your point of Russian nostalgia for the Soviet era, showing how people can be nostalgic for a less than perfect past.
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yungho said:
Russian nostalgia for the Soviet era, showing how people can be nostalgic for a less than perfect past
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Russians are not nostalgic for their romanticized past all because it's blasè. The Russian suffered immense death and suffering post Soviet collapse and according to prominent studies that there were about 10 MILLION Russians that died as a result of Soviet collapse. Plus additional more casualties from hunger, alcoholism, high crimes etc....so the notion that Russians were longing for a bygone era all based on nostalgia is clueless of their most recent history.

Here, this video presented by a double PhD German Scholar and American University Professor elucidated on the comparisons of success and failures between Soviet Russia and the CPC led China.


And yet once again, am still waiting for your "reform political system" you have pushed for and is somehow unable to provide some detail of what that political reform would look like and why the reform you're imagining would bring about the necessary change that's more positive and whatever adjective you want to come up with.

Mao Zedong is controversial figure to western loving Chinese period because that's the truth. It's no different than how the liberal western leaning Filipinos see Ferdinand Marcos as controversial or much maligned past president of the Philippines but to the vast overwhelming majority of that country's population, he, Marcos is considered as their best President period. Mao Zedong is no more controversial than Churchill is controversial or Ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr. to Americans.
 
Z

zhangjim

Junior Member
Registered Member
solarz said:
1. Will Taiwan cross the red line?
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For radicals, the U.S.has long breached the Red Line.They see the landing of U.S. military transport aircraft in Taiwan in 2021 as the most important breakthrough,even if it is symbolic, it means that U.S. military forces are directly entering Taiwan.

The radicals believe that they should use the time gap of the covid-19 crisis to take action，but the government has shown a disappointing performance,one of the most commonly used sarcastic phrases at the moment is: "Our bottom line is flexible to adjust and back off".

In recent years a conspiracy theory has grown up：The government is using Taiwan as a middleman to "pay tribute" to the United States.
This means that the current regime is in fact groveling to Taiwan.

Putting aside these absurd ideas,another sharp criticism argues the government is wasting its political credibility,they need to remember that their inaction will be recorded in history,this vacillating attitude is unacceptable.

Radicals believe China is rapidly losing its mobilization capacity：The outbreak management in Shanghai this year was poor and chaotic,the whole of China paid the price for Shanghai，Shanghai has exposed many problems and scandals, but few officials have been punished.
Dependence on GDP growth, protection of one's political status, and the need to maintain an image are seriously disrupting normal anti-epidemic efforts，Shanghai has even become an area that cannot be publicly blamed，these irresponsible bureaucrats have chewed up China and no one can shake this interest group.

Due to the degradation of management capacity, both unified war and post-war governance will be impossible.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
zhangjim said:
For radicals, the U.S.has long breached the Red Line.They see the landing of U.S. military transport aircraft in Taiwan in 2021 as the most important breakthrough,even if it is symbolic, it means that U.S. military forces are directly entering Taiwan.

The radicals believe that they should use the time gap of the covid-19 crisis to take action，but the government has shown a disappointing performance,one of the most commonly used sarcastic phrases at the moment is: "Our bottom line is flexible to adjust and back off".

In recent years a conspiracy theory has grown up：The government is using Taiwan as a middleman to "pay tribute" to the United States.
This means that the current regime is in fact groveling to Taiwan.

Putting aside these absurd ideas,another sharp criticism argues the government is wasting its political credibility,they need to remember that their inaction will be recorded in history,this vacillating attitude is unacceptable.

Radicals believe China is rapidly losing its mobilization capacity：The outbreak management in Shanghai this year was poor and chaotic,the whole of China paid the price for Shanghai，Shanghai has exposed many problems and scandals, but few officials have been punished.
Dependence on GDP growth, protection of one's political status, and the need to maintain an image are seriously disrupting normal anti-epidemic efforts，Shanghai has even become an area that cannot be publicly blamed，these irresponsible bureaucrats have chewed up China and no one can shake this interest group.

Due to the degradation of management capacity, both unified war and post-war governance will be impossible.
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do radicals believe this or do YOU believe this?
 
ficker22

ficker22

Senior Member
Registered Member
zhangjim said:
For radicals, the U.S.has long breached the Red Line.They see the landing of U.S. military transport aircraft in Taiwan in 2021 as the most important breakthrough,even if it is symbolic, it means that U.S. military forces are directly entering Taiwan.

The radicals believe that they should use the time gap of the covid-19 crisis to take action，but the government has shown a disappointing performance,one of the most commonly used sarcastic phrases at the moment is: "Our bottom line is flexible to adjust and back off".

In recent years a conspiracy theory has grown up：The government is using Taiwan as a middleman to "pay tribute" to the United States.
This means that the current regime is in fact groveling to Taiwan.

Putting aside these absurd ideas,another sharp criticism argues the government is wasting its political credibility,they need to remember that their inaction will be recorded in history,this vacillating attitude is unacceptable.

Radicals believe China is rapidly losing its mobilization capacity：The outbreak management in Shanghai this year was poor and chaotic,the whole of China paid the price for Shanghai，Shanghai has exposed many problems and scandals, but few officials have been punished.
Dependence on GDP growth, protection of one's political status, and the need to maintain an image are seriously disrupting normal anti-epidemic efforts，Shanghai has even become an area that cannot be publicly blamed，these irresponsible bureaucrats have chewed up China and no one can shake this interest group.

Due to the degradation of management capacity, both unified war and post-war governance will be impossible.
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Right............

Anyways.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
zhangjim said:
For radicals, the U.S.has long breached the Red Line.They see the landing of U.S. military transport aircraft in Taiwan in 2021 as the most important breakthrough,even if it is symbolic, it means that U.S. military forces are directly entering Taiwan.

The radicals believe that they should use the time gap of the covid-19 crisis to take action，but the government has shown a disappointing performance,one of the most commonly used sarcastic phrases at the moment is: "Our bottom line is flexible to adjust and back off".

In recent years a conspiracy theory has grown up：The government is using Taiwan as a middleman to "pay tribute" to the United States.
This means that the current regime is in fact groveling to Taiwan.

Putting aside these absurd ideas,another sharp criticism argues the government is wasting its political credibility,they need to remember that their inaction will be recorded in history,this vacillating attitude is unacceptable.

Radicals believe China is rapidly losing its mobilization capacity：The outbreak management in Shanghai this year was poor and chaotic,the whole of China paid the price for Shanghai，Shanghai has exposed many problems and scandals, but few officials have been punished.
Dependence on GDP growth, protection of one's political status, and the need to maintain an image are seriously disrupting normal anti-epidemic efforts，Shanghai has even become an area that cannot be publicly blamed，these irresponsible bureaucrats have chewed up China and no one can shake this interest group.

Due to the degradation of management capacity, both unified war and post-war governance will be impossible.
Click to expand...
And what has these radicals brought to the country other than playing pretend military hero? If these nutcases were the one leading the country then China would have collapsed along time ago.

There's a reason why the situation in Shanghai was handled differently because Shanghai is one of the most important cities, and economic lifeline in all of China. To treat Shanghai like it's just another regular cities of China underscores the stupidity and callousness of such radical idiots.

To waste away China's hard earned success, financial, material, economic, scientific, accomplishments in a hasty war against it's own breakaway province so that those ingrates can feel good about themselves deserve a sound beating many times over. The immense loss or China's economic reputation and standing if China were to push for war in Taiwan unilaterally would bring forth instability and chaos in the region since the country isn't that mature or ready for such huge undertaking.

While I can maybe understand a tinge of their criticism that China's leaders and elites are maybe more resistant to the idea of waging war because it will upend and destroy their economic livelihoods and lifestyles. If this charge is true then the party leadership will soon find itself on a defensive end and it's destruction isn't around that far.
 
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