PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

sinophilia

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why no discussions on a second Korean War? Or a Russian invasion of Ukraine? Or an ISIS resurgence in Africa?

"PLA strategy in a Taiwan Contingency" - That is the thread title.

What in the hell are you on about?

After all, the above is what will happen if the US decides to redeploy its global forces, so why are we just assuming the US is capable of magically focusing all of its attention on China without any cost?

At the end of the day, China is fighting for Taiwan while the US is fighting to keep its global hegemony.

Yes, and I agree on both points. But if you are going to simply conclude that they don't have the stomach or the money it sounds like degenerate gambling. Worse still you're doing this not at some casino with your own money but with the survival and prosperity of an entire nation-state.

One must assume they will have the will and the money to do it, the latter I don't even think needs to be an 'assumption' as it's practically guaranteed. Money/economic output certainly won't inhibit them from redeploying forces or fighting. You think they can't muster up tens of billions of dollars for redeployment, or increase military spending to 5% of GDP for a few years in a war of attrition? Why? It's ridiculous. Political and moral willpower could be a problem for them, but that's a hell of an embarrassing hill to die on if fighting actually happens and that's the only thing you can rely on.

Do you have any legitimate reasons for thinking that China can currently win a war of attrition in her backyard in the next few years against the US? Other than innocently assuming the US is too poor to redeploy their forces or surge military spending for a few years for a war of attrition? If you do, and you're going to talk military strategy and military capability of both nations, then you'll have something worthwhile to say.
 

sinophilia

Junior Member
Registered Member
To defeat an adversary, you don't need to counter his every strength. That is utter foolishness.

Instead, you need to identify his weakness and exploit it effectively. Right now, the weakness of the US is that it needs to defend its interests all over the world while China only needs to fight on its doorstep.

All this analysis of specific capabilities misses the forest for the trees.

So hoping and coping they are not rich/warlike enough to fight a war of attrition or even rich enough to redeploy their forces is your 'exploit'. Great strategy.

I'd prefer that China build the most dominant and capable armed forces the world has ever seen. In my opinion that is a much better hedge than just hoping for US collapse or US cowardice. Both might happen, but having to rely on them for national unity and survival is *pathetic* and weak.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Yes, and I agree on both points. But if you are going to simply conclude that they don't have the stomach or the money it sounds like degenerate gambling. Worse still you're doing this not at some casino with your own money but with the survival and prosperity of an entire nation-state.

Tell that to Chairman Mao.

One must assume they will have the will and the money to do it, the latter I don't even think needs to be an 'assumption' as it's practically guaranteed. Money/economic output certainly won't inhibit them from redeploying forces or fighting. You think they can't muster up tens of billions of dollars for redeployment, or increase military spending to 5% of GDP for a few years in a war of attrition? Why? It's ridiculous. Political and moral willpower could be a problem for them, but that's a hell of an embarrassing hill to die on if fighting actually happens and that's the only thing you can rely on.

No, I don't think we need to make any such assumption.

If a little increase in military spending was enough to defeat China, then why didn't they do it in Korea? Or against the Vietnamese? Why did they choose to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan? LOL!
 

solarz

Brigadier
So hoping and coping they are not rich/warlike enough to fight a war of attrition or even rich enough to redeploy their forces is your 'exploit'. Great strategy.

I'd prefer that China build the most dominant and capable armed forces the world has ever seen. In my opinion that is a much better hedge than just hoping for US collapse or US cowardice. Both might happen, but having to rely on them for national unity and survival is *pathetic* and weak.

Think you forgot a little caveat:

"I'd prefer that China build the most dominant and capable armed forces the world has ever seen before taking back Taiwan."

I think this alone illustrates how foolish that notion is.
 

sinophilia

Junior Member
Registered Member
If a little increase in military spending was enough to defeat China, then why didn't they do it in Korea? Or against the Vietnamese? Why did they choose to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan? LOL!

So yea, lets hope that China gets utterly defeated and humiliated and that the US even chooses to invade and occupy the country. That way hopefully China can win the insurgency and make the US bleed money and morale... because THAT is the analogy you are unknowingly spewing.

Think you forgot a little caveat:

"I'd prefer that China build the most dominant and capable armed forces the world has ever seen before taking back Taiwan."

I think this alone illustrates how foolish that notion is.

IF one assumes that the US might intervene, then you might as well write "before taking back Taiwan AND fighting America". And no, don't try to pigeonhole me, I don't think the overmatch needs to be as high as you might be implying, that would be specifically if there was a war of attrition, which thankfully I'm sure government officials take into account in their scenario planning unlike you.

But of course you and you alone are already 100% sure the US will not intervene because they are too cowardly and too poor. That is the real foolishness.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
We judge people by their track records. The same applies to countries.

The US' track record is Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

When Chairman Mao made the decision to go into Korea, he did so with the conviction that all imperialists were paper tigers. History proved him right.

The US has neither the political resolve nor the economic capability to wage a protracted war on China's doorsteps.

Even if they somehow could, redeploying their global forces to fight China in the Pacific means the US would effectively cease to exist as a hegemon, as Russia, Iran, ISIS and al-Qaeda would all take advantage of this. The best case scenario then for the US would be to take China down with it.

Of course that's assuming it is even capable of redeployment in the first place, which is something that has never been in the cards in the first place.

I do agree that track records are important, and the last time that the US faced a peer competitor in a high intensity air-naval conflict on a war of attrition was imperial Japan.

Other conflicts that the US had engaged in since WWII either have not involved peer competitors (i.e.: the US lacks the geopolitical rationale for a protracted conflict where it is willing to commit the entirety of its forces in a total war of annihilation), nor have they been air-naval in nature.


If the USA considers such an option, Russia will consider it imperative to bring down the USA in response for going after their better then a alliance partner because they will be next in the event of a fabled US victory and I cannot see how the USA would want to risk such a scenario on any level if they engage China over Taiwan.

Also a air naval conflict isn’t going to be something that China is going to allow given the myriad of counter measures along with being one of two nations with working hypersonic weapons. in the event of such a build up, China and Russia would be literally brain dead not to use them against the USA and its assets in order to wipe them out and such the USA lose a bulk of their military assets in the pacific, it would take decades if not more to rebuild them, which means China and Russia has the time to destroy the rest of the USA military to ensure such a scenario never happens. All this is contingent on whether the USA is willing to start this fight of which they already are in Ukraine with the USA fighting tooth and nail to force Russia to make the first move, using lies to basically kick off a conflict like they did in Iraq, which like every other conflict they have gotten into is guaranteed not to be as smooth sailing as you would believe it would be.
hubris seems to be a constant for the USA, but much of this can the USA sustain until they simply cannot do so any more

Any air-naval conflict would of course involve the use of hypersonic weapons by all sides who have them.

Hypersonic weapons however are a strike system that offers a high chance of successfully penetrating defenses, and if a war occurred today, neither China nor Russia have that many hypersonic weapons in their inventory.


If Russia chooses to make a move while the US redeploys its forces in the western pacific, that is certainly a possibility. Chances are Russia would make moves in Europe, where it would be dependent on European NATO countries to try to fend off a Russian offensive. Russia might contribute what little forces they have to a western pacific conflict as well, but by that point the US will almost certainly enlist the help of Japan and Korea against Chinese and Russian forces in the pacific.

Unfortunately that is all still not a very favourable situation for China, as the US may well be quite willing to allow its client states and allies in Europe and East Asia to bear significant losses if they are all collectively able to inflict losses on Chinese and Russian forces while allowing the US to preserve the relative security and invulnerability of the continental US.


Look -- my overall persisting position throughout the last couple of weeks is this: however we game this out, I believe there is no substitute for the PLA but to require itself to have the capability of wholesale defeating US forces in a manner whereby the US simply does not have the material capability to wage a war of attrition/total war against China even if they had the resolve to.

I do not think the above requirement should be a controversial one, as it is the only option in which the full range of realistic material factors and assumptions can be accounted for, to ensure that victory can be attained (or at least defeat avoided) if the US does have the resolve to fight a war of attrition/total war and the geopolitical boldness to redeploy its global forces against China.
 

solarz

Brigadier
So yea, lets hope that China gets utterly defeated and humiliated and that the US even chooses to invade and occupy the country. That way hopefully China can win the insurgency and make the US bleed money and morale... because THAT is the analogy you are unknowingly spewing.

Are you saying the PVA was fighting am insurgency in Korea? LMAO!

IF one assumes that the US might intervene, then you might as well write "before taking back Taiwan AND fighting America".

But of course you are already 100% sure the US will not intervene because they are too cowardly and too poor. Utterly moronic.

LOL, China fought the US in Korea. Did Chairman Mao wait for the PLA to become the dominant world force before going up against the US?
 

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
So yea, lets hope that China gets utterly defeated and humiliated and that the US even chooses to invade and occupy the country. That way hopefully China can win the insurgency and make the US bleed money and morale... because THAT is the analogy you are unknowingly spewing.



IF one assumes that the US might intervene, then you might as well write "before taking back Taiwan AND fighting America". And no, don't try to pigeonhole me, I don't think the overmatch needs to be as high as you might be implying, that would be specifically if there was a war of attrition, which thankfully I'm sure government officials take into account in their scenario planning unlike you.

But of course you and you alone are already 100% sure the US will not intervene because they are too cowardly and too poor. That is the real foolishness.
So I think the key premise to this entire hypothetical situation / discussion is "you can hope for the best, but definitely prepare for the worst", which to me is totally sensible.
Yes, the US has a lot of internal issues, which may / will affect their end performance, however it is fully reasonable and prudent to prepare, plan and train as if they won't.
All in all, good points for the discussion but when push comes to shove, you'd rather have taken a rocket launcher to the gunfight rather than hope your opponent forgot to bring bullets.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Look -- my overall persisting position throughout the last couple of weeks is this: however we game this out, I believe there is no substitute for the PLA but to require itself to have the capability of wholesale defeating US forces in a manner whereby the US simply does not have the material capability to wage a war of attrition/total war against China even if they had the resolve to.

I do not think the above requirement should be a controversial one, as it is the only option in which the full range of realistic material factors and assumptions can be accounted for, to ensure that victory can be attained (or at least defeat avoided) if the US does have the resolve to fight a war of attrition/total war and the geopolitical boldness to redeploy its global forces against China.

And I completely disagree with this position.

China fought the US when it had barely finished uniting the country. It also fought Vietnam when it had just got out of the Cultural Revolution.

China fights when it needs to, not when everything is ready.
 
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