PLA next/6th generation fighter thread

[Index]

There are many reasons "why" a three engine configuration could make sense. I don't want to list them all, but they are mostly just permutations of "two engines insufficient thrust for airframe of the size/nature that they want".

The implication is buried a little bit -- but it would suggest they do not anticipate their engine technology to be sufficiently capable to meet the needs for a two engine design in the near future, and the deficit is so significant that the added weight of a whole other engine is seen as a better solution to their requirements, and it also implies they would likely be stuck with a three engine design as well (airframe redesign if they were able to one day have a suitable engine for a two engine design, would not be easy to do).

And if they were pursuing a three engine design with the goal of having two engines be say, lower bypass and one engine be say, higher bypass, to emulate the ability of variable cycle engines for different flight regimes, it's questionable whether they even have the suitable powerplants for that to occur let alone whether the added weight of a whole other engine is worth it either.


So yes, sure it's not non-viable for the J-XD to have three engines, but it would have such profound implications for everything about the industry and technology that they have available and where they anticipate themselves to be, and it would also be a major shift from what we expect for J-XD on the background of what little news we have had about it in the last year or so.
It would be exceptional for such a major deviation/design choice to only be revealed to us this late in the game, and so soon to its anticipated reveal.

I don't see how it would have a profound implication for "everything" about (aerospace) industry and technology. If it did drop with 3 engines, it would have profound implications for 6th gens, but not everything else.

The implication being that a key criteria of a 6th gen is something on board/a flight characteristic that makes 3 engines an expected feature of 6th gens. Which is massive in the realm of 6th gen design, but not quite so much as to affect "everything".

 

[Blitzo]

I don't see how it would have a profound implication for "everything" about (aerospace) industry and technology. If it did drop with 3 engines, it would have profound implications for 6th gens, but not everything else.

The implication being that a key criteria of a 6th gen is something on board/a flight characteristic that makes 3 engines an expected feature of 6th gens. Which is massive in the realm of 6th gen design, but not quite so much as to affect "everything".

I use the word "they" a few times in that post, so I thought it was apparent it referred to the aerospace industry for China (given it is China's aerospace industry which is developing J-XD).
But to clarify, when I say "implications for everything about the industry and technology that they have available" I am referring to those domains for China.
I do not mean it for other nations, nor do I mean in a universal/global case.


If this aircraft has three engines, it means that it has implications for the technology and the aeroengines industry they have available or anticipate to be available for J-XD's life cycle.

 

[Nx4eu]

No comment needed …

View attachment 140243

Where did you get that image? Did you draw the rest of it as a kind of possible frontal configuration to the bottom image we were given?

 

[Deino]

Where did you get that image? Did you draw the rest of it as a kind of possible frontal configuration to the bottom image we were given?

I found it here

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Blitzo]

No comment needed …

View attachment 140243

I mean, I think it deserves some comment lol, in the sense that "the significance/seriousness of this three engine drawing remains inconclusive, and someone has drawn it in relation to speculated size alongside a J-20 s/n 2001/2" would probably be useful to keep in mind.

 

[Index]

I use the word "they" a few times in that post, so I thought it was apparent it referred to the aerospace industry for China (given it is China's aerospace industry which is developing J-XD).
But to clarify, when I say "implications for everything about the industry and technology that they have available" I am referring to those domains for China.
I do not mean it for other nations, nor do I mean in a universal/global case.

This is the first 6th gen, so it has a global implication that the designers believe a key feature is the additional power generation.

What I said is that it doesn't have a retroactive effect on what we already know about China's aerospace industry.

Stealth was one of the defining elements of 5th gen, it's inclusion had important implications for future designs, but not "everything". Nor is it country specific.

 

[Deino]

I mean, I think it deserves some comment lol, in the sense that "the significance/seriousness of this three engine drawing remains inconclusive, and someone has drawn it in relation to speculated size alongside a J-20 s/n 2001/2" would probably be useful to keep in mind.

Sorry my friend, but I’m just out in the forest and since the last two pages were on this - how speculative and at least for the moment inconclusive - I thought it would be obvious

 

[Alfa_Particle]

No comment needed …

View attachment 140243

No concealable control surfaces at the front and rear? Zero stars. Back to the drawing board. /s

 

[Blitzo]

This is the first 6th gen, so it has a global implication that the designers believe a key feature is the additional power generation.

What I said is that it doesn't have a retroactive effect on what we already know about China's aerospace industry.

Stealth was one of the defining elements of 5th gen, it's inclusion had important implications for future designs, but not "everything". Nor is it country specific.

I think you have misunderstood what I wrote in my last post.

If J-XD has three engines, I am not saying it has any effect on our appraisal of what a 6th generation aircraft is like or what expectations three engines possesses.

I am saying that if J-XD has three engines, it does tell us where we can expect the Chinese aerospace industry to be, particularly in terms of aeroengine development and capability, because they would not choose to go with a three engine configuration if they possessed sufficient engine technology to enable a twin engine configuration instead (whether it's in terms of thrust, flight regime optimization, or electrical power generation -- which isn't inherently tied with engine thrust/engine count but it is also related to the aircraft's onboard generators and its cooling/thermal capacity).



If you want to argue that having three engines means that designers believe a key feature of 6th generation aircraft is additional power generation, my counter view is that it means they weren't able to get the job done with two engines (which would be a preferable configuration to three engines) or associated generators.

 

[Index]

I think you have misunderstood what I wrote in my last post.

If J-XD has three engines, I am not saying it has any effect on our appraisal of what a 6th generation aircraft is like or what expectations three engines possesses.

I am saying that if J-XD has three engines, it does tell us where we can expect the Chinese aerospace industry to be, particularly in terms of aeroengine development and capability, because they would not choose to go with a three engine configuration if they possessed sufficient engine technology

Why would you assume there is a "sufficient" engine technology when no one else has demonstrated credibly what a 6th gen would be like? That seems to me uncharacteristically unconservative.

to enable a twin engine configuration instead (whether it's in terms of thrust, flight regime optimization, or electrical power generation -- which isn't inherently tied with engine thrust/engine count but it is also related to the aircraft's onboard generators and its cooling/thermal capacity).

If you want to argue that having three engines means that designers believe a key feature of 6th generation aircraft is additional power generation, my counter view is that it means they weren't able to get the job done with two engines (which would be a preferable configuration to three engines) or associated generators.

The implication of them not being able to get the job done with two engines is that there's something about the J-XD that no other twin engined plane design can suffice.