PLA Navy news, pics and videos

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
MTU engines have been used since the 1990s in PLAN? It's been a known thing for as long as I remember.

China has since years and years ago been building engine variants off reverse engineered MTU ones and nowadays the analogy can be sort of like J-16D lineage compared to Su-30. J-16D came from J-16 which came from J-11B which came from J-11 which came from Su-27SK. Same thing with some PLAN ship engines today. They are no longer build or even designed by MTU (save a few types) and the ones being used are developments off developments off reverse engineered MTU ones.

Just like a J-16D is nothing like a Su-27SK and capabilities wise far different, the in service MTU engines are fewer than before and the Chinese developments off Chinese reverse engineered MTUs are now different to MTUs as that lineage diverged some time ago.

Of course with engines, the changes are far fewer than something like a J-16D from Su-27SK. The capabilities between MTUs and the in service ones are also far closer than the capability gap between a J-16D (or a J-16) and a twin seater Su-30 for example.

I'm surprised this is news. It's been known for at least a decade that MTU supplied many old PLAN ships.
 
The Observer

The Observer

Junior Member
Registered Member
ougoah said:
MTU engines have been used since the 1990s in PLAN? It's been a known thing for as long as I remember.

China has since years and years ago been building engine variants off reverse engineered MTU ones and nowadays the analogy can be sort of like J-16D lineage compared to Su-30. J-16D came from J-16 which came from J-11B which came from J-11 which came from Su-27SK. Same thing with some PLAN ship engines today. They are no longer build or even designed by MTU (save a few types) and the ones being used are developments off developments off reverse engineered MTU ones.

Just like a J-16D is nothing like a Su-27SK and capabilities wise far different, the in service MTU engines are fewer than before and the Chinese developments off Chinese reverse engineered MTUs are now different to MTUs as that lineage diverged some time ago.

Of course with engines, the changes are far fewer than something like a J-16D from Su-27SK. The capabilities between MTUs and the in service ones are also far closer than the capability gap between a J-16D (or a J-16) and a twin seater Su-30 for example.

I'm surprised this is news. It's been known for at least a decade that MTU supplied many old PLAN ships.
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So basically many Chinese engines are long-lost cousins of those designed by MTU, MAN, and Pielstick? then I suppose I'll have to update my knowledge bank.

Can you provide any link/s about current Chinese engine production and how many still rely on licenses from MTU, MAN, and Pielstick?
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
The Observer said:
So basically many Chinese engines are long-lost cousins of those designed by MTU, MAN, and Pielstick? then I suppose I'll have to update my knowledge bank.

Can you provide any link/s about current Chinese engine production and how many still rely on licenses from MTU, MAN, and Pielstick?
Click to expand...

I am not well versed with PLAN ship engines except in knowing that many older (and some modern) ones have used MTU engines or engines derived from MTU engines and some reverse engineered ones. I'm guessing there are many Chinese developed engines that are developments on reverse engineered MTU engines.

MBT engines was the same.

Perhaps more knowledgeable members can contribute and provide you with more accurate information.
 
B

banjex

Junior Member
Registered Member
Laviduce said:
Funny how MTU, MAN and Pielseck are probably not under scrutiny after supplying their technology to criminal regimes such as the Neocon/Neolib US and Saudi Arabia. We have literally hundreds of thousands of deaths because of US wars and coups of aggression in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Ukraine, Kosovo, etc. in the past 20+ years but that is A-Ok !

FYI: Deutsche Welle (DW) is a notorious Trans-Atlanticist /US propaganda and misinformation outlet that operates from German soil. When it comes to politics or geopolitics they are just another BILD or Die Welt, an extension of the global US propaganda and misinformation apparatus. Please remember, Germany is still a US vassal state.
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Laviduce said:
It is fairly difficult to keep politics away from the topics of discussion when they have been politicized from the start. DW, just like BILD, Spiegel, Focus, etc. are all trans-atlanticist mouthpieces whether you or I like it or not. Their "reporting" says it all.
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Cease this verbal vomit.
 
W

weig2000

Captain
ougoah said:
I'm surprised this is news. It's been known for at least a decade that MTU supplied many old PLAN ships.
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It's politics. Pure and simple.

The reason they report this news is politics. The reason we discuss this piece is politics. Because this is nothing new, nothing shocking, nothing of military value that we don't know or people who need to know don't know already for a long time.

So we can discuss the "non-political" part of this political news, we can also talk about the "political" part of this political news.

Or we can all just move on, after it's clear it's a piece of political news.
 
Z

zxy_bc

Junior Member
Registered Member
ougoah said:
MTU engines have been used since the 1990s in PLAN? It's been a known thing for as long as I remember.

China has since years and years ago been building engine variants off reverse engineered MTU ones and nowadays the analogy can be sort of like J-16D lineage compared to Su-30. J-16D came from J-16 which came from J-11B which came from J-11 which came from Su-27SK. Same thing with some PLAN ship engines today. They are no longer build or even designed by MTU (save a few types) and the ones being used are developments off developments off reverse engineered MTU ones.

Just like a J-16D is nothing like a Su-27SK and capabilities wise far different, the in service MTU engines are fewer than before and the Chinese developments off Chinese reverse engineered MTUs are now different to MTUs as that lineage diverged some time ago.

Of course with engines, the changes are far fewer than something like a J-16D from Su-27SK. The capabilities between MTUs and the in service ones are also far closer than the capability gap between a J-16D (or a J-16) and a twin seater Su-30 for example.

I'm surprised this is news. It's been known for at least a decade that MTU supplied many old PLAN ships.
Click to expand...
What's more surprising is that DW making a scene of it, making it sound like some breaking news. When in fact it's so well known that everyone sort of treat it as common knowledge.
 
G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Well, Germany blocked sales of MTU engines to Russia after the Ukrainian situation. That delayed the 20385 and Buyan corvette programs. Perhaps they think doing the same to China would slow them down? But the Chinese already made their own versions of these engines long ago. Germany has long had pernicious weapons export regulations. For one they don't usually export weapons to countries at war. That happened with Turkey and the Leopard 2 upgrade packages which were never delivered after Turkey went into Syria for example. The joke here is that China isn't at war with anyone.

Just like it was said here DW has a rabbid "Atlanticist" i.e. pro-US slant. Try going through their Youtube news site and you will see what I mean.
 
Dante80

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
Something I didn't know...from the article.

According to SIPRI, MTU was a regular supplier of engines for Luyang III class missile destroyers through a licensed production plant in China until at least 2020.

Was under the impression that the MTUs had been swapped for indigenous offerings much earlier.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Dante80 said:
Something I didn't know...from the article.

According to SIPRI, MTU was a regular supplier of engines for Luyang III class missile destroyers through a licensed production plant in China until at least 2020.
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I have a bit of doubt regarding that, given those diesels should be license produced for a while now.


I have a feeling SIPRI is counting license production as physical export/import.
 
Dante80

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
Bltizo said:
I have a bit of doubt regarding that, given those diesels should be license produced for a while now.


I have a feeling SIPRI is counting license production as physical export/import.
Click to expand...
This sounds more plausible. Even the sentence itself is contradictory (speaking of MTU being a supplier while at the same time mentioning licensing).

Unless the whole idea would be to state that the continued licensing itself was the problem (since MTU knew their engines were being fitted to military ships).
 
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