PLA missile defense system

Harley-One

Banned Idiot
Lets not bring LKY into the scene... I don't like him either but that is beside the point and we do not want to start a political debate between Singapore and China.

C'mon, rhino!!! That was a joke. I mean we can't dwell purely on politics alone now can we? It was supposed to make the day go quicker...

Now, go to post 12. That me there in the flesh ;)...
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The contents is my take of the [reasonable] assets I [speculate] the PRC should have...

Yes, that take is a little on the far fetched and many or all in this forum may see it or me as some kind of a nutso for saying that. But, my postulation is that if China does not have what have postulated here, America would've definitely bullied/blackmailed us long ago with nukes -- over a little row between an EP-3/J-8 even...

Here's the equation: We have some 3000 miles of border with the Indians; another 3000 with the Soviets (now Russia); coupled with another hundred or two with Nam; then there's our coast line (4000 milers???) which is shadowed by the mightiest navy in world armed to the teeth with nukes and posturing us 24/7/365; How's about Guam, Japan, South Korea, all reluctantly harbors American nukes pointed point blank at us??? Don't forget America's poodle Chen Sui-Bien, we have the Taiwan Straight to deal with. And all we have i mere few dozen nukes??? All hostile territories to us. Now which border do we secure or whose nukes do we deter against if all we have is but a mere few dozen of nukes to defend us??? Find the variables for it, rhino.

Walker's World: Ganging up on China
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Other references (speculative of course):

据美国《防务新闻》报道,具有中国军方背景的《军事世界画刊》
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By Jane's
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rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
And that is why, I say China should focus more on building a greater navy... have more nukes and stuffs like that. I doubt even at this stage would anyone actually dare to touch Russia.

Once you have 8000 or so Nuke, I don't think anyone in their right mind (even in the unsounded mind) would dare to touch China. And by that I mean credible deterrence.

We (chinese) do not always have to be in the defensive (building the ABM shield and defend ourselves against other's offensive). For once, why couldn't we be on the offensive and 'hammer' out those who try to be funny (pre-emptive strike)?

And lets forget what the media had been saying and building up of the China's threat. This ABM is not going to change their mind of China rising up peacefully anyway. It is just a waste of resources for now.

Only with around that said amount of nukes could we chinese actually emerge to be strong enough to tell the world to back off.
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
8000? if you take off a 0 maybe.

you should review what Deng said, modern warfare will be limited in scale but intense in the use of technology, so nukes wouldnt top my chart in the weapons that China needs the most in the next 10 years.
 

jantxv

New Member
Naturally, China will continually improve her offensive and defensive capabilities. I am sure China will reach nuclear M.A.D. status. Also, it seems apparent that China will develop a Blue Water Navy. China is filling the super power vacuum left by the former Soviet Union as it has wont.

As far as discussions about the speed and precedence of select weapon capabilities, China may be not only filling the shoes of the former Soviets, but wary of Soviet lessons. It may not be in China's interests to overextend militarily, as such commitments represent substantial long term expenditures that will only increase with time.

The Soviets tried to match the West in almost all aspects militarily. The Soviets wanted a Blue Water Navy to match the West, at least locally, so they commanded it to be so. The Soviets wanted a counter, or at least a complement, to American missile defense systems aka "Star Wars" and so it was commanded.

The result was a Land Power trying to match a Sea Power. Traditional thinking dictates that it would be folly for a Sea Power to try to match and sustain a Land Power's advantages and vice versa. The Soviets ignored this old strategic rule of thumb and may have attempted to match without limits via limited resources.
 
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vesicles

Colonel
We (chinese) do not always have to be in the defensive (building the ABM shield and defend ourselves against other's offensive). For once, why couldn't we be on the offensive and 'hammer' out those who try to be funny (pre-emptive strike)?

Peaceful rise, my friend, peaceful rise! If China start turning 180 deg and becoming offensive, many of its neighbors will get a little anxious and that's not good for China's long term goals. what China needs NOW is a peaceful and friendly environment to develop. Once becoming a superpower, it can do whatever it wants and build 1 million nukes if it wants to. But now, it needs to lay low and ACTS passive ;)

And frankly, I still think investing in nukes too much is a waste of money and time and energy. When do you expect to use them? Almost never. You certainly don't want to attack another nuke power pre-emptively if you expect to survive the counter-attack. And no one in their right or wrong mind would attack China for the same reason. So you end up with something you can't/won't/shouldn't use under any circumstances. So what's the point then? So spending so much on nukes is very wasteful. As long as you have a credible nuke capability and demonstrate to the world that you can survive the first attack and fight back, no one will dare to hit China with nukes. But people will have less concern about conventional weapons like a missile and will in most cases not hesitate using them. So having a ABM system is definitely more useful than nukes because people actually use missiles in wars. And letting people know about China's ABM capability will also give China's potential enemies something to think about and decrease the chance of becoming a target of a missile attack.
 
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rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Peaceful rise, my friend, peaceful rise! If China start turning 180 deg and becoming offensive, many of its neighbors will get a little anxious and that's not good for China's long term goals. what China needs NOW is a peaceful and friendly environment to develop. Once becoming a superpower, it can do whatever it wants and build 1 million nukes if it wants to. But now, it needs to lay low and ACTS passive ;).

China had been telling the world of her peaceful rise in power, but no one seemed too interested in the truth. And the truth is... people always view China as a threat, no matter how many nuke she has... be it 1 nuke or 1 million nuke. China's neighbours aren't exactly very friendly either... look towards Japan, South Korea in the east, Vietnam and many of the ASEAN countries in the south... and India.

Sometime it is not China who don't want a peaceful and friendly environment to develope, sometime it is whether that environment is going to be given to China.

Sorry, I might be a bit exaggerating in developing and deploying of 8000 nuke (it is a typo, by the way... I mean 800, as pointed out by someone before.)


And frankly, I still think investing in nukes too much is a waste of money and time and energy. When do you expect to use them? Almost never. You certainly don't want to attack another nuke power pre-emptively if you expect to survive the counter-attack. And no one in their right or wrong mind would attack China for the same reason. So you end up with something you can't/won't/shouldn't use under any circumstances. So what's the point then? So spending so much on nukes is very wasteful. As long as you have a credible nuke capability and demonstrate to the world that you can survive the first attack and fight back, no one will dare to hit China with nukes. But people will have less concern about conventional weapons like a missile and will in most cases not hesitate using them. So having a ABM system is definitely more useful than nukes because people actually use missiles in wars. And letting people know about China's ABM capability will also give China's potential enemies something to think about and decrease the chance of becoming a target of a missile attack.

Yes. China or any countries with nuke are not going to use them easily... but that is something to tell the world that I have this much Nuke... and if I fired them at you, there really is nothing you have in your arsenal that can stop at least a couple to land on your ground.

Okay... I took back my statement of China going pre-emptive at this moment... but at least with a large and powerful Navy and Air-force, she could tell her surrounding that it would not be wise to fight them.

In history, I have read that China always fight in her own land... and offensive that were taken on China was always being fought in China. Well... even if China successfully repels these attack... the damage done was still on the Chinese soil... and most of the casaulties suffered are still normal Chinese people.

Thus sometime, we should forget about passive defence and invest in offensive or what I call active defence. When there is a reason to believe that the other nation is slowly being offensive and hostile then perhaps some knocking is in place. For once, China should bring the battle outside her soil and not still try to use the old tactics of using "the land and space of China in exchange for time."

ABM is no doubt an important developement and a good to have or what many would have argued essential thing to have. But this system is solely providing China with a passive defense capability which again was not really that effective.

So instead of letting others launch missiles at you, why don't you launch missiles at them first. And ensure that they are sufficiently covered that they would back down? Isn't that the best deterrence?
 

Harley-One

Banned Idiot
And that is why, I say China should focus more on building a greater navy... have more nukes and stuffs like that. I doubt even at this stage would anyone actually dare to touch Russia.
Ship for ship aircraft for aircraft is a costly and stupid proposition. Technology is thing that'll ensure our national security.


Once you have 8000 or so Nuke, I don't think anyone in their right mind (even in the unsounded mind) would dare to touch China. And by that I mean credible deterrence.
I said it once and I'll say again: 8000 nukes is overkill. That's cold war mentality. Again, technology which ensures pinpoint accuracy and which ensures survivability of second strike capabilities is key. Blinding hostile eyes in the sky and electromagneticizing an opponent's electronic/high tech components is the way to go. The latter the Chinese are speculated to be in on the game...

We (chinese) do not always have to be in the defensive (building the ABM shield and defend ourselves against other's offensive). For once, why couldn't we be on the offensive and 'hammer' out those who try to be funny (pre-emptive strike)?
You are talking about world policeman duties. I don't think we want the baggage. I don't think we want the responsibility. We are filthy money hungry money making pigs, communist nationalist democrats, or whatever we go by. Money is what drives us Chinese...


This ABM is not going to change their mind of China rising up peacefully anyway. It is just a waste of resources for now.
It's like this, rhino: Walk tall, walk softly, but, always carry with you a big stick. ABM/NMD give the holder of missile defense technology an advantage, and that advantage is a greater probability of survival hence ABM/NMD = a big stick...


Only with around that said amount of nukes could we chinese actually emerge to be strong enough to tell the world to back off.
We are surrounded by hostile neighbors, rhino, hostile neighbors who have no second thoughts about making void the presumed threat we posts them. Dog eat dog world???
 
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rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Ship for ship aircraft for aircraft is a costly and stupid proposition. Technology is thing that'll ensure our national security.

Look Harley, I respected you and your point of view on whatever subject... it is just that you and I share a different point of view, there really is no need to keep coming in with this type of language... calling other people's opinion as stupid or what. And in all of my posts, I never even mentioned about ship for ship and aircraft for aircraft kind of crap. I just said that China needed a larger navy and airforce, I never mention anything about matching whichever country's navy and airforce.


I said it once and I'll say again: 8000 nukes is overkill. That's cold war mentality. Again, technology which ensures pinpoint accuracy and which ensures survivability of second strike capabilities is key.

I have already rebuked my own claim as a typo error in my previous post. And for this 800 nuke theory, perhaps I am wrong.


You are talking about world policeman duties. I don't think we want the baggage. I don't think we want the responsibility. We are filthy money hungry money making pigs, communist nationalist democrats, or whatever we go by. Money is what drives us Chinese...

I am not talking about world policeman duties. I am saying that we should not be always acting like a punching bag for everyone around us to keep hitting us whenever they feel like it. Even with the ABM up and running, what makes you think they will not continue to punch us? As you see, the war is always fought on chinese's soil, why couldn't future war be fought on somebody's else?


It's like this, rhino: Walk tall, walk softly, but, always carry with you a big stick. ABM/NMD give the holder of missile defense technology an advantage, and that advantage is a greater probability of survival hence ABM/NMD = a big stick...

Maybe you are right here. But I still stand by my opinion or developing a more powerful offensive first, before developing defensive.

We are surrounded by hostile neighbors, rhino, hostile neighbors who have no second thoughts about making void the presumed threat we posts them. Dog eat dog world???

That is precisely why I say to develope a more powerful offensive. We cannot always be standing there trying to fends off attacks. For once, let the other fend off our attacks!

By saying that, since both our views into the situation differs, I will not try to change your opinion on anything. So we can leave it here.
 

kwiekie

New Member
ABM is no doubt an important developement and a good to have or what many would have argued essential thing to have. But this system is solely providing China with a passive defense capability which again was not really that effective.

Rhino,
I know you believe in nuclear deterrence but look at follow USAF illustration, imagine what you can do in a battlefield with couple of aircraft in the air with laser, you can destroy every cruise missile, ballistic missile, etc... that the enemy launched. For this kind capabilities we need to test and develop support technology like tracking, detection, space sensor, etc...

Like i say before, nuclear weapon is not a weapon that you can use, so why investing lots of your resource in something that you never will use. In other hand ABM capabilities is also very useful in conventional war and don't forget, nuclear weapon is also very dangerous even we don't use like nuclear waste, accidents, etc...

imho Nuclear deterrence is more useful for weak army's/country's and PLA is not really weak anymore.

USAF_Airborne_laser.jpg
 
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