PLA AEW&C, SIGINT, EW and MPA thread

[lilzz]

All you would have is a fuzzy idea of where the F-22 is; you may be off by as much as a kilometre or more.

Furthermore size of a radar is no longer a critical factor as it was 20 years ago, with the advances in radar technology today.

off one kilometer, no problem, the IR seeker on the missile can track the target within 20 kilometers.

It still uphold that more power and juice, the radar will be more powerful.

 

[Pointblank]

off one kilometer, no problem, the IR seeker on the missile can track the target within 20 kilometers.

It still uphold that more power and juice, the radar will be more powerful.

Not likely that you will be able to achieve good lock, as you are forgetting that the F-22 still has countermeasures, such as flares and IRCM's.

 

[PrOeLiTeZ]

Though they might detect it can the lock on before the F-22 locks onto them. Radar has larger detection radius but its BVRAAM has a much shorter combat radius. Think PL-12 is like 70-85km. So detecting is one another but taking it down is also a whole different story. F-22 is radar reflective to certain degree but it aint IR proof. Its large thrusting turbofans will always give of heat signature no matter what so IR missles would be dangerous once F-22 is in its range of operation.

 

[lilzz]

Not likely that you will be able to achieve good lock, as you are forgetting that the F-22 still has countermeasures, such as flares and IRCM's.

what if using the IR seeker has some threshold control, above certain level, it bypass. Like those flares, the IR level is too intense and size too small, so the intelligent IR seeker would bypass them. there would be profile of IR signature of the F-22 on the computer system and it would be used to compare and screen. ANything unreasonable would bypassed.

 

[tphuang]

let's get this cleared out, the comment on being able to lock onto F-22 size was referring to the stealth RCS rather than something like F-15. It would be pretty sad if KJ-2000 can only track something that large, that is non-stealthy from 200 km out.

However, I've seen some of the figures that certain PLA experts seem to be using for F-22's RCS size and they are surprisingly large. At least, probably an order of magnitude or 2 larger than what we've been hearing out of LM. Although, things like RCS from different angles for F-22 are probably top secret, it's useless to discuss this. If KJ-2000 can even track F-22 from 150 km out, I'd be really satisfied. Of course, the goal is to probably allow flankers or J-10s to be able to get tracking data and engage F-22s from probably 30 to 50 km out. And since F-22 is so tiny on radar, those actively guided BVR missiles might as well be SARH. An SRAAM with IIR seeker like AIM-9X or its equivalent might have an easier time locking on to F-22 than ARH missile, but it's still tough. That's why they are putting so much emphasis on anti-stealth, because F-22 is the one platform that gives USAF so much advantage at the present time.

Having said that, people would start asking why would USAF just buy all F-22s then or even more F-22s. Well, the Chinese 5th gen fighter is slated to be ready by 2015 and also the general technology for countering stealth would be more readily available by then. So, F-22 won't be able to carry all the weight by itself. That's why you need all these other programs that they are working on.

 

[Pointblank]

what if using the IR seeker has some threshold control, above certain level, it bypass. Like those flares, the IR level is too intense and size too small, so the intelligent IR seeker would bypass them. there would be profile of IR signature of the F-22 on the computer system and it would be used to compare and screen. ANything unreasonable would bypassed.

I see a whole lot of what-if's and a whole lack of technical understanding.

Flares are meant to emulate the heat signature of aircraft. Furthermore, no one has the radar signature of a F-22, let alone the heat or EM signature of one. The Russians sure as hell don't, despite the F-22 operating in the NORAD air intercept role, as the F-22's never fly 'clean' externally when they are doing these NORAD intercepts, as they are carrying drop tanks, and their radars are never turned on.

 

[lilzz]

a Flares are meant to emulate the heat signature of aircraft.

Then I would a combo of radar sig + IR sig to differentiate between a flare and a plane. I might not know what's the radar sig , IR sig of plane, but it's alot easy to tell what's a nonreasonable data.

for example
the missile detect 4 objects (one plane + 3 flares)
IR sig would be the same for all 4 but only one has different radar sig than the rest of the 3. So, the missile would IR lock on that object that has a different radar sig than the rest of the 3.

 

[Totoro]

Guys, that's what imaging infra red seekers are for. No need for radar data, seeker just sees if target is the size of a flare or an actual 15-10 meter object in the sky, preferably shaped like a plane that it has in its database.

 

[Scratch]

There are a lot of back and forth issues with those things.
Maybe you could have a long wave radar on an AWACS for early warning and an S or X-band radar for tracking to guide a LRAAM with IIR seeker to the target that locks on after launch. (I think LOAL IIR missiles with longer [BVR] ranges will emerges in the future.)
Then again you need to mainain a datalink to the missile over long ranges wich may be prone to EW meassures. If you get closer, you again come into jeaporday against the raptors own effectors.

 

[lilzz]

Maybe you could have a long wave radar on an AWACS for early warning and an S or X-band radar for tracking to guide a LRAAM with IIR seeker to the target that locks on after launch.
Then again you need to mainain a datalink to the missile over long ranges wich may be prone to EW meassures. If you get closer, you again come into jeaporday against the raptors own effectors.

first, What about spread spectrum or LPD? you can still EW measure?
secondly, your case still implying using the plane's radar, why can't the missile has its own radar?

If you turn on your EW thing, it will light up like a lightbulb, the missile's radiation seeker will kick in and zone in, it doesn't need the radar info from the AWACS or its own radar. The job will become easier if it feature a radiation seeker onboard,lol