Performance of Chinese exported weapons in current/recent conflicts

sumdud said:

Was that from Cambodia? Only Cambodia has bought Type 97s if I remember right.
Bangladesh is itself license producing the Type 81 locally.
Only bad stories I have heard are from Thailand, mainly with its old frigates and Type 69s which China itself doesn't like. And of course, Thailand is satisfied with its later purchases.

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and Sri Lanka

Here's a few pics of Pakistani tanks damaged or abandoned this month from the fighting:





From the photos, I think the MBT was "mission killed' but not destroyed. The ammo inside did not explode or pop the turret off w/burnt hull, so the armor did its job and the crew probably survived.

In terms of performance, we need to keep in mind that the Pakistani Army is up against irregular infantry and not enemy armor. Israeli style heavy APC might have been a better choice for such operations.

looking at the pictures we can see that the tank was punched through from the side. i wonder why chinese tanks simply don't have side armor.

Its not a Chinese-made tank, its a Pakistani Al-Zarrar

Dear Sirs:

The tank in question doesn't look like a Chinese-made tank, although superficially it resembles the Type 85-II or 85-III, mainly from the shape of the turret and of the glacis plate.

What is NOT consistent with the Type-85 series however, are the 5 Soviet-style road wheels which are similar to those of the Soviet T-54/55 and T-62 series and with the Chinese Types 59 and 69.

Also there are only 5 road wheels (also consistent with the Type 59 and 69) and not 6, (which is the number consistent with the Type 85 series) and they should American or Western-style road wheels.

All in all, this tank resembles an upgraded version of the Type 59 called the Al-Zarrar, partly designed by and produced in Pakistan by HIT (Heavy Industries Taxila), a tank repair and manufacturing facility provided to Pakistan by the People's Republic.

The Al-Zarrar upgrade was intended as a low-cost but highly effective attempt to modernize Pakistan's large but obsolete fleet of Type 59's.

It consists of an upgraded hull and completely-new, rectangular, Western-style turret, mounting a 125 mm smooth-bore gun with advanced sights, fire-control and armor, a new and more powerful engine.

It was hoped that along with a completely new tank, based on Norinco's MBT-2000, called the Al-Khalid, the Al-Zarrar could not only re-equip Pakistan's armored forces but be sold abroad.

This proved to be true when Saudi Arabia expressed interest in the Al-Khalid, and some other nations sought the Al-Zarrar upgrade.

SteelBird said:

looking at the pictures we can see that the tank was punched through from the side. i wonder why chinese tanks simply don't have side armor.

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The MBT upgrade package probably only provides armor protection against direct hits from other tanks in the frontal arc. Side and rear armor are weaker.

The Israelis, Russians, and Jordanians realized is that combat in urban areas against irregular infantry requires better protection for armored vehicles. Thus, they built heavy APC's and IFV's with added protection against RPG's on the sides.

This is the old Israeli mod "Nakpadon" to the Centurion chassis:


And this is the Jordanian version" Temsah", a bit more refined:



The Pakistani army's armor corp was probably prepared for head-on collision against India and not counter-insurgency operations within its own borders. Look at the photo below -- it's just too easy for insurgents to hide to the side for point blank shots to the side/rear in urban areas.

Great find, adeptitus. I read somewhere that the Israeli modified the captured T-55s into heavy IFVs to operate against insurgents. Look at the first picture, the IFV at least has three machine guns operated manually which the gunners might be vulnerable. But it was claimed that it would be more flexible than operating inside a turret.

SteelBird said:

Great find, adeptitus. I read somewhere that the Israeli modified the captured T-55s into heavy IFVs to operate against insurgents. Look at the first picture, the IFV at least has three machine guns operated manually which the gunners might be vulnerable. But it was claimed that it would be more flexible than operating inside a turret.

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I think this is what you were referring to.



I'm pretty sure that the Achzarit is the more evolved version of the vehicle in that earlier post. It's a very heavy APC.

dont forget the chinese anti ship missile which hit the israeli frigate a few years back, hezbollah must have been happy with that purchase

That was no Chinese missile, but some deriviant of Iran's deriviant of a Chinese missile.

SteelBird said:

Great find, adeptitus. I read somewhere that the Israeli modified the captured T-55s into heavy IFVs to operate against insurgents. Look at the first picture, the IFV at least has three machine guns operated manually which the gunners might be vulnerable. But it was claimed that it would be more flexible than operating inside a turret.

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Here's some additional info on the Israeli Nakpadon HAPC:


It's equipped with 4 x MG's and a 60mm mortar.

There are several T-54/T-55 APC conversions. The Israeli Achzarit is well known:


The Russians offer the BTR-T:







A more refined version:



As far as I know Pakistan Army's primary APC is the M-113 and improved variants. So their best option for better-protected armor in current engagement is still MBT's. IMO both PLA and Pakistan Army should look into HAPC's and HIFV's. Both countries have significant numbers of old tanks that could be rebuilt. There's a place for light and mobile, and then there's a place for heavy metal.