Next Generation DDG and FFG thread (after 055, 052D, 054B)

[Tomboy]

I do know that rumors, but until a definite image or satelite image is up, it's still rumor. Right now all we see is a bow of an unknown ship

This ship is probably a corvette not a frigate, the rumors refer to a different design at a different yard. I'm also pretty sure the guy that said there was a new class of ship because there were procurement tenders sent out so it probably wasn't him speculating.

 

[Tomboy]

New frigate might be CODLAG?

 

[gelgoog]

I could see it happen since a faster top speed due to gas turbine would allow keeping up with other ships in a task force better. But it will be more expensive than just diesels.

Electric propulsion also needs a lot of copper and other strategic materials.

 

[Tomboy]

SOYO's speculation

New FFG will have a larger displacement than 054B but smaller than 052D, max speed and combat speed will be faster than the 054A but 32+ knot speed drifting is out of the question as it was not required in the tender.

New DDG should have greater range and firepower than 052D hence will be bigger. It's expected to be similar in size/classification to the Burke III but incorporate more advanced sensors/weapons.

For 055 mod. and CG, these are basically top tier product hence it is very difficult to find info on them. If they do indeed exist, the construction period will be long so stay patient.

The 15th 5YP is a critical period where all classes of ships will start to see their successors emerge. If done correctly, in under 10 years from now, PLAN could firmly assert it's technological dominance on USN.

 

[gelgoog]

I kind of expect as much. The 052 replacement to have similar displacement to a 055 or Burke III.

Every single ship in the PLAN will be bigger and more well armed.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

SOYO's speculation

While he termed his post as "my own speculation", I do believe that he/she have access to enough information/indication on the development of next-generation PLAN surface combatants, particularly on the first two.

New FFG will have a larger displacement than 054B but smaller than 052D, max speed and combat speed will be faster than the 054A but 32+ knot speed drifting is out of the question as it was not required in the tender.

Given the news from just earlier today indicating CODLAG propulsion system to be used on the PLAN's next-generation FFGs, the FFGs will certainly be larger than the 054/A/B FFG family, and should also form a new FFG class of its own.

The next-generation FFG should be somewhere around the 6000-ton displacement mark at full load. I wouldn't expect too much of a significant weaponry volume upgrade, though - Albeit the radars, sensors and computing systems certainly will have a leap over the 054/A/B family.

New DDG should have greater range and firepower than 052D hence will be bigger. It's expected to be similar in size/classification to the Burke III but incorporate more advanced sensors/weapons.

Given that the next-generation FFGs will have CODLAG propulsion system, it is only natural to expect that this next-generation general-purpose DDG will either utilize similar propulsion system configuration, or IEPS. Significant upgrades in both the weaponry and radars + sensors + computing systems are to be expected. And again, given the contrast between possible CODLAG/IEPS on the next-generation DDGs and the preceding 052D/DG DDGs, the former should be forming its own new class of DDGs.

In the meantime, SOYO mentioned that the present-day 052D/DGs in the PLAN is pretty much similar in terms of size and (mission) configuration as the Flight 1/2 Burkes in the USN, so it'd be interesting to see what this 9000+-ton full-load displacement 052D/DG-successor DDGs will be like.

And same for both the next-generation FFGs and DDGs - Endurance and integration of unmanned systems should be key considerations in their designs.

For 055 mod. and CG, these are basically top tier product hence it is very difficult to find info on them. If they do indeed exist, the construction period will be long so stay patient.

Expected, given how the first 055 DDG was commissioned just 5.5 years ago. Besides, there are still plenty of variables to set.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

View attachment 159043
What's this?

View attachment 159047
New corvette?

Discussion continued in the Corvette/Light frigate thread.

 

[tamsen_ikard]

View attachment 159179
SOYO's speculation

New FFG will have a larger displacement than 054B but smaller than 052D, max speed and combat speed will be faster than the 054A but 32+ knot speed drifting is out of the question as it was not required in the tender.

New DDG should have greater range and firepower than 052D hence will be bigger. It's expected to be similar in size/classification to the Burke III but incorporate more advanced sensors/weapons.

For 055 mod. and CG, these are basically top tier product hence it is very difficult to find info on them. If they do indeed exist, the construction period will be long so stay patient.

The 15th 5YP is a critical period where all classes of ships will start to see their successors emerge. If done correctly, in under 10 years from now, PLAN could firmly assert it's technological dominance on USN.

If pla is going for a new frigate with even bigger displacement. Then I wonder what was the point of developing the 054B.


My impression was that 054B is like what the 054 was to 054A. That is, test the hull, propulsion and everything for the ship but keep old armament, then in 054A, maintain the same hull but upgrade the armament significantly thus maturing the ship design for mass production.

But if the displacement is getting so much higher, then this new frigate likely has a new and bigger hull as well.

Then what was the point of doing the 054B?

My hunch is that 054B is a conservative upgrade design that was sort of rejected and the newer and more risky design won. thus, 054B will not be produced in numbers.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Given the recent information and rumors (and its associated "hype") on the potential propulsion systems of China's next-generation major surface combatants. I figured to give it a try to tabulate the probable options in tables.

I suppose this is what having the "World Of Freedom In The Marine Propulsion System Domain" looks like...

FFG (purported 054A/B-successor)
Configuration: 1x gas turbine engines (GTE) + 2x diesel-electric engines (DEE) in CODLAG

GTE Options	Individual GTE Power Output	Combined GTE Power Output	Combined Overall Power Output
CGT-25M	~27 MW	~27 MW	~33 MW / ~37 MW / ~43 MW
CGT-30M	~33 MW	~33 MW	~39 MW / ~43 MW / ~49 MW
QC400	~40 MW	~40 MW	~46 MW / ~50 MW / ~56 MW
CGT-40M	~42 MW	~42 MW	~48 MW / ~52 MW / ~58 MW

DDG (purported 052D-successor)
Configuration: 2x gas turbine engines + 2x diesel-electric engines in CODLAG/IEPS

GTE Options	Individual GTE Power Output	Combined GTE Power Output	Combined Overall Power Output
CGT-25M	~27 MW	~54 MW	~60 MW / ~64 MW / ~70 MW
CGT-30M	~33 MW	~66 MW	~72 MW / ~76 MW / ~82 MW
QC400	~40 MW	~80 MW	~86 MW / ~90 MW / ~96 MW
CGT-40M	~42 MW	~84 MW	~90 MW / ~94 MW / ~100 MW

CG (purported 055-successor)
Configuration: 2x gas turbine engines + 4x diesel-electric engines in CODLAG/IEPS

GTE Options	Individual GTE Power Output	Combined GTE Power Output	Combined Overall Power Output
CGT-25M	~27 MW	~54 MW	~66 MW / ~74 MW / ~86 MW
CGT-30M	~33 MW	~66 MW	~78 MW / ~86 MW / ~98 MW
QC400	~40 MW	~80 MW	~92 MW / ~100 MW / ~112 MW
CGT-40M	~42 MW	~84 MW	~96 MW / ~104 MW / ~116 MW
QC500	~50 MW	~100 MW	~112 MW / ~120 MW / ~132 MW
CGT-50M	~52 MW	~104 MW	~116 MW / ~124 MW / ~136 MW

BCG (rumored Chinese counterpart to CG(X))
Configuration: 4x gas turbine engines + 10x diesel-electric engines in CODLAG/IEPS

GTE Options	Individual GTE Power Output	Combined GTE Power Output	Combined Overall Power Output
CGT-25M	~27 MW	~108 MW	~138 MW / ~158 MW / ~188 MW
CGT-30M	~33 MW	~132 MW	~162 MW / ~182 MW / ~212 MW
QC400	~40 MW	~160 MW	~190 MW / ~210 MW / ~240 MW
CGT-40M	~42 MW	~168 MW	~198 MW / ~218 MW / ~248 MW
QC500	~50 MW	~200 MW	~230 MW / ~250 MW / ~280 MW
CGT-50M	~52 MW	~208 MW	~238 MW / ~258 MW / ~288 MW

Notes:
1. The DEEs listed in all of the above propulsion configurations have the rated output powers of ~3 MW (from 052D DDG), ~5 MW (from 054A FFG) and ~8 MW (from 054B FFG), respectively.
2. The power output values of all the GTEs listed are taken at ISO conditions.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Not exactly news per se, though a couple of notable/eye-catching Weibo comments.

From the comment section of a Weibo post by Adorable Dolphin on the YJ-15:

不爱吃肉包啦: Are the 850mm VLS cells still going to be sufficient for use in the future? Does (the VLS cells) need to become larger?

Adorable Dolphin: Larger-sized VLS cells will definitely be needed, but not for putting (read: cramping) smaller-sized missiles

Amongst the same comment replies underneath the same post:

冷风寒冬萧瑟: There already are academic paper(s) which came out (on this matter), and that the future Large VLS (LVLS) cell will be a 1.2-meter (diameter) square "well".

Does anyone happens to have any knowledge of and/or have access to said academic paper(s) with the aforementioned 1.2-meter LVLS cell?