Next Generation DDG and FFG thread (after 055, 052D, 054B)

[tygyg1111]

Judging by recent antics in the SCS, it is not just allowed but compulsory and to excess.

Crashing your high performance car: $90k.
Crashing it while drinking with your filipino friends and doing burnouts - Priceless.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

I think they might be skipping straight to 20k tonnes.

Or they could do a two-class cruiser like what the USN considered for CG(X) program before budget cuts and eventual cancellation. Their idea was a 14,000 ton sized escort cruiser with a stealthy hull design similar to the Zumwalt and a 23,000 ton BMD cruiser with conventional hull since such an air defense ship would need to have its radar on most of the time negating advantages of a stealthy hull. PLAN go for a similar force layout in the future with a fully stealthy(radar, acoustic and thermal) Type 055 successor as an escort "large destroyer" along with a similarly stealthy 9-10kt general purpose destroyer and the 20kt+ CG in a brand new class of warships for the PLAN.

Assuming that the alleged BMD-capable CG project for the PLAN does actually exist:

If said CG has a full-load displacement that is around or beyond 20000 tons, then such CG certainly wouldn't be able to be mass produced like the 055 and 052D/DG DDGs. Just take a look at how the progresses of the 055s' construction, fitting out and sea trials prior to commissioning have been going since the mid-2010s until today, let alone the fact where a jump from 13000 tons to well over 20000 tons is still too vast for a full-fledged large surface combatant.

This means that CGs of such dimensions will only be available in limited numbers.

Hence, if this purported CG is indeed a real and existing project - Then I believe the case could be either of the following:
1. The CG will be less than 20000 tons and as the successor class to the 055; or
2. The CG will be around or more than 20000 tons, and with a smaller counterpart within the 10000-ton full-load displacement range as the true successor to the 055.

In other words, for the latter option, this CG should be a branch-out - Just like how the 055 is a branch-out from the 052 line.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Unfortunately the Zumwalt style tumblehome hull form is extremely space inefficient.

I believe there have been papers exploring/discussing the avenue of using Zumwalt-like superstructures for better LO capability + Conventional-design hulls (such the 055's hull design) for better hull space management and allocation for below-deck applications.

 

[TK3600]

Assuming that the alleged BMD-capable CG project for the PLAN does actually exist:

If said CG has a full-load displacement that is around or beyond 20000 tons, then such CG certainly wouldn't be able to be mass produced like the 055 and 052D/DG DDGs. Just take a look at how the progresses of the 055s' construction, fitting out and sea trials prior to commissioning have been going since the mid-2010s until today, let alone the fact where a jump from 13000 tons to well over 20000 tons is still too vast for a full-fledged large surface combatant.

This means that CGs of such dimensions will only be available in limited numbers.

Hence, if this purported CG is indeed a real and existing project - Then I believe the case could be either of the following:
1. The CG will be less than 20000 tons and as the successor class to the 055; or
2. The CG will be around or more than 20000 tons, and with a smaller counterpart within the 10000-ton full-load displacement range as the true successor to the 055.

In other words, for the latter option, this CG should be a branch-out - Just like how the 055 is a branch-out from the 052 line.

Never say it will not be mass produced. Even carriers can be mass produced. If it is determined to be important, it will.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Never say it will not be mass produced. Even carriers can be mass produced. If it is determined to be important, it will.

In that case, aircraft carriers (both nuclear-powered (i.e. CVN) and conventional-powered (i.e. CVV, VSTOL Support Ship, Sea Control Ship etc)) are determined to be very important for the USN. So why didn't we see them getting pumped out by the dozens during the Cold War, especially when the US was at its prime, and when all-out wars with the Warsaw Pact was an ever-lasting possibility?

 

[tamsen_ikard]

Never say it will not be mass produced. Even carriers can be mass produced. If it is determined to be important, it will.

Carriers are nothing in terms of technology. They are just a big warship with lots of living quarters and a hanger. In ww2, plenty of cargo ships were converted to carriers.

The key thing that makes carriers expensive are the air wings. 100 planes and associated 5000 crew is extremely expensive.

That's why most countries don't operate carriers. Not because of the ship but the overall package cost.

China hasn't and will not mass produce carriers cause of the expense in terms of air wings and also because of lack of strategic value in the first island chain. In a first island chain fight, carriers are a liability and has a high chance of getting sinked by us and ally missiles.

Land based air power will beat carrier air power. So, China doesn't need that many carriers until they eject US out of the west-pac and convert us allies like Japan and Korea into Chinese client states.

Until that happens, China needs focus on land based air power and missile power.

 

[TK3600]

In that case, aircraft carriers (both nuclear-powered (i.e. CVN) and conventional-powered (i.e. CVV, VSTOL Support Ship, Sea Control Ship etc)) are determined to be very important for the USN. So why didn't we see them getting pumped out by the dozens during the Cold War, especially when the US was at its prime, and when all-out wars with the Warsaw Pact was an ever-lasting possibility?

Back in WWII USN had up to 24 fleet carriers with plan for more. For most of cold war US had around 20. It was not necessary to expand further against soviet union, but if the need arrive it will be mass produced in cold war as well.

 

[JimmyMcFoob]

Back in WWII USN had up to 24 fleet carriers with plan for more. For most of cold war US had around 20. It was not necessary to expand further against soviet union, but if the need arrive it will be mass produced in cold war as well.

For most of the Cold War, the bulk of the fleet carriers were WW2-era/immediate postwar Essex-class holdovers (and 3 Midway-class), not newbuild supercarriers. Even then, by 1980, all of those were out of service except for USS Lexington and 2 Midways. The former was a training carrier and unlikely to ever face combat again, and the latter 2 were old ships that probably should've been retired earlier. It's simply impossible to mass produce modern capital ships nowadays. They're far too complex, and standards really cannot be cut lest it become structurally unsound and/or unreliable.

 

[vincent]

For most of the Cold War, the bulk of the fleet carriers were WW2-era/immediate postwar Essex-class holdovers (and 3 Midway-class), not newbuild supercarriers. Even then, by 1980, all of those were out of service except for USS Lexington and 2 Midways. The former was a training carrier and unlikely to ever face combat again, and the latter 2 were old ships that probably should've been retired earlier. It's simply impossible to mass produce modern capital ships nowadays. They're far too complex, and standards really cannot be cut lest it become structurally unsound and/or unreliable.

Only the US and Europeans have this problem due to the atrophy of their shipbuilding industries.

 

[JimmyMcFoob]

Only the US and Europeans have this problem due to the atrophy of their shipbuilding industries.

I did say capital ships, like carriers and LHAs. Otherwise I agree, China could probably still pump out escorts in great numbers, though it still probably would not reach American WW2 DD/DDE numbers.