RedMercury
Junior Member
Well, they're optimizing for different things, so they can make up for some size differences by designing for supercomputing.
News on China's scientific and technological development.
- Thread starter Quickie
- Start date
Schumacher
Senior Member
The article is referring here to only the manufacturing of the chip, itself a small aspect of the design of the supercomputer. And it's more like 2 generations with China technology using 65nm and western ones 32nm in mass production now, with one generation being only about 2 years apart. Note also when they talk about SKorea, Taiwan and Japan to a lesser extent technologies, they're basically talking about US tech being used by them.
The best chip making machines are made by ASML in the Netherlands, which is also the largest producer of such machines in the world. While older machines are continuing to produce chips in China, the best Chinese machines will also have been provided by ASML and there is no reason these will still be at the 65 nm stage.
antiterror13
Brigadier
deleted
Last edited:
antiterror13
Brigadier
the 65nm Chinese one, is it indigenous ? I thought it was Intel owned
Quickie
Colonel
The 65nm process is not exactly state of the art and should be available in China from a number of companies (Intel is not a chip manufacturing process provider company). The latest high end process though is probably accessible only to countries such as Taiwan, South Korea, Japan etc.
The latest high end process is available to those who bought the latest chip making machines. A short while ago ASML produced their newest machine just before a dip in the sale of those machines. I remember it well as my wife had tried to find work with then a few months before. It would have been extremely strange if in a time they had to suspend hundreds of their employees they would have refuse to sell such machine to China.
Another point: If China had used 65 nm chips in their new supercomputer and their computer designers had been absolutely brilliant while the designers of Jaguar had been extremely stupid the power efficiency of that new supercomputer could not possibly be five times as good as Jaguar's.
Another point: If China had used 65 nm chips in their new supercomputer and their computer designers had been absolutely brilliant while the designers of Jaguar had been extremely stupid the power efficiency of that new supercomputer could not possibly be five times as good as Jaguar's.
Schumacher
Senior Member
When I talked about 65nm, I meant that's the most advanced Chinese indigenous chip machines, I think by AMEC, in production now. More advanced indigenous ones are still not in full production mode yet I think.
45nm production machines in China now are by Western manufacturers, one generation behind the most advanced mainstream 32nm due to western restrictions.
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
The Headlines a bit misleading but i wonder if its for real.
However I like the first comment i wonder if that could be done.
"They should make a red yeast rice infused gene modified variant as..statin laced human serum albumin.
Kiss your high cholesterol & triglycerides goodbye... "
"Grains of rice have been genetically modified by scientists so they produce a key component of human blood in an attempt to provide an alternative to donations.
The protein, extracted from rice plants containing human genes, could be used in hospitals to treat burns victims and help patients who have suffered severe blood loss.
The scientists behind the research claim it will provide a plentiful and safe alternative to products from human blood donations, which are in short supply due to falling numbers of donors, and get around the need to screen for diseases such as HIV and hepatitis.
Currently in the UK around 1.6 million pints of blood are needed every year but just four per cent of the eligible population donate.
Donated blood is separated into three components - red blood cells, platlets, which are used to aid blood clotting, and plasma, which is mainly made up of a protein called Human Serum Albumin and is given to patients suffering heavy blood loss.
By growing the genetically modified rice in fields, the researchers claim Human Serum Albumin could be mass produced for use in hospitals, reducing the need to purify it from blood donations.
Human Serum Albumin is the most abundant protein in human blood and performs important functions including carrying hormones and minerals around the body, mopping up harmful toxins from the blood stream and helping to regulate blood pressure.
Dr Daichang Yang, the scientist who led the research at Wuhan University in central China, said: "Human Serum Albumin is an important protein. The demand for it is estimated at more than 500 tons per year worldwide.
"Currently commercial production of HSA is primarily based on collected human plasma, which is limited in supply, but of high clinical demand.
"There is also an increasing public health concern with plasma derived HSA with its potential risk for transmission of blood-derived infectious pathogens such as hepatitis and HIV.
"The use of a rice seed bioreactor could provide an economical and safe approach for the production of non-animal derived compounds."
Dr Yang and his colleagues have developed a technique for inserting human genes into Asian rice using bacteria, turning the plants into biological "factories" that can produce proteins that are identical to those found in humans.
Their latest research, published in the scientific journal of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, showed that they had successfully inserted DNA for Human Serum Albumin and the resulting protein was chemically and physically identical to that found in blood.
Over successive generations they were able to increase the amount of Human Serum Albumin produced in the rice grains until it accounted for 10 per cent of the soluble protein produced in the rice seeds.
It comes just months after Chinese scientists announced they had genetically modified a herd of around 300 diary cows to produce milk with the same qualities as human breast milk, which sparked widespread concerns among animal welfare campaigners.
The latest work to introduce human genes into rice is likely to inflame opposition to GM technology further amid fears over the safety of genetically modified crops and alarm at combining human genes with those from other species.
Dr Yang said, however, that the protein produced by the genetically modified rice was identical to Human Serum Albumin found naturally in blood. Tests on rats also showed it did not produce any adverse reactions.
They also treated rats suffering from cirrhosis with the protein and showed it was effective at relieving the symptoms, much like the naturally occurring protein found in human blood.
Dr Yang is also hoping to use genetically modified rice plants to produce other proteins found in human blood, including haemoglobin, which gives blood its distinctive red colour and is carries oxygen around the body, and key proteins from the immune system such as immunoglobulin.
A patent application filed by Dr Yang and his colleagues revealed they hope to adapt the technique to produce a wide range of human proteins that can be used in medical treatments.
The team are also working on a strain of genetically modified rice that produces proteins that are similar to insulin for use in treating diabetes.
Gavin Murphy, a consultant in cardiac surgery at Bristol Royal Infirmary and a senior lecturer at the University of Bristol who studies the impact of blood transfusions on patients, described said the research had the potential to revolutionise the supply of blood products for use in hospital.
He said: "This is ground breaking stuff, but so far they have only validated it in rats. The real test will be to show it is safe in humans, can be purified and sterilised effectively.
"With this approach they will be able to grow these plants in fields and produce blood proteins on a huge scale that would really solve all of the supply issues we currently face."
However I like the first comment i wonder if that could be done.
"They should make a red yeast rice infused gene modified variant as..statin laced human serum albumin.
Kiss your high cholesterol & triglycerides goodbye... "
"Grains of rice have been genetically modified by scientists so they produce a key component of human blood in an attempt to provide an alternative to donations.
The protein, extracted from rice plants containing human genes, could be used in hospitals to treat burns victims and help patients who have suffered severe blood loss.
The scientists behind the research claim it will provide a plentiful and safe alternative to products from human blood donations, which are in short supply due to falling numbers of donors, and get around the need to screen for diseases such as HIV and hepatitis.
Currently in the UK around 1.6 million pints of blood are needed every year but just four per cent of the eligible population donate.
Donated blood is separated into three components - red blood cells, platlets, which are used to aid blood clotting, and plasma, which is mainly made up of a protein called Human Serum Albumin and is given to patients suffering heavy blood loss.
By growing the genetically modified rice in fields, the researchers claim Human Serum Albumin could be mass produced for use in hospitals, reducing the need to purify it from blood donations.
Human Serum Albumin is the most abundant protein in human blood and performs important functions including carrying hormones and minerals around the body, mopping up harmful toxins from the blood stream and helping to regulate blood pressure.
Dr Daichang Yang, the scientist who led the research at Wuhan University in central China, said: "Human Serum Albumin is an important protein. The demand for it is estimated at more than 500 tons per year worldwide.
"Currently commercial production of HSA is primarily based on collected human plasma, which is limited in supply, but of high clinical demand.
"There is also an increasing public health concern with plasma derived HSA with its potential risk for transmission of blood-derived infectious pathogens such as hepatitis and HIV.
"The use of a rice seed bioreactor could provide an economical and safe approach for the production of non-animal derived compounds."
Dr Yang and his colleagues have developed a technique for inserting human genes into Asian rice using bacteria, turning the plants into biological "factories" that can produce proteins that are identical to those found in humans.
Their latest research, published in the scientific journal of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, showed that they had successfully inserted DNA for Human Serum Albumin and the resulting protein was chemically and physically identical to that found in blood.
Over successive generations they were able to increase the amount of Human Serum Albumin produced in the rice grains until it accounted for 10 per cent of the soluble protein produced in the rice seeds.
It comes just months after Chinese scientists announced they had genetically modified a herd of around 300 diary cows to produce milk with the same qualities as human breast milk, which sparked widespread concerns among animal welfare campaigners.
The latest work to introduce human genes into rice is likely to inflame opposition to GM technology further amid fears over the safety of genetically modified crops and alarm at combining human genes with those from other species.
Dr Yang said, however, that the protein produced by the genetically modified rice was identical to Human Serum Albumin found naturally in blood. Tests on rats also showed it did not produce any adverse reactions.
They also treated rats suffering from cirrhosis with the protein and showed it was effective at relieving the symptoms, much like the naturally occurring protein found in human blood.
Dr Yang is also hoping to use genetically modified rice plants to produce other proteins found in human blood, including haemoglobin, which gives blood its distinctive red colour and is carries oxygen around the body, and key proteins from the immune system such as immunoglobulin.
A patent application filed by Dr Yang and his colleagues revealed they hope to adapt the technique to produce a wide range of human proteins that can be used in medical treatments.
The team are also working on a strain of genetically modified rice that produces proteins that are similar to insulin for use in treating diabetes.
Gavin Murphy, a consultant in cardiac surgery at Bristol Royal Infirmary and a senior lecturer at the University of Bristol who studies the impact of blood transfusions on patients, described said the research had the potential to revolutionise the supply of blood products for use in hospital.
He said: "This is ground breaking stuff, but so far they have only validated it in rats. The real test will be to show it is safe in humans, can be purified and sterilised effectively.
"With this approach they will be able to grow these plants in fields and produce blood proteins on a huge scale that would really solve all of the supply issues we currently face."
bladerunner
Banned Idiot
China opens doors of state-run companies to world’s top talent
y Vivek Wadhwa, Thursday, November 17, 12:48 AM
The top talent in countries around the world have a new suitor: the Chinese government.
China has a severe shortage of skilled talent and, in a policy reversal, has decided to open its doors to talent from around the world. This could mean that the brilliant NASA scientists the U.S. laid off, could find new employment — and a new home — in Shanghai or Beijing.
Chinese research labs have long had difficulty recruiting qualified workers to perform necessary research and development, and its corporations struggle to find competent managers. The situation will likely get worse as China’s high-tech industries grow and it increases its national R&D spending from the present 1.62 percent of GDP, according to the Chinese government, to the planned 2.5 percent by 2020. China’s President Hu Jintao, in May 2010, declared talent development a national priority in order to fill the void. The goal is to dramatically increase the education level of China’s workforce and to build an innovation economy.
China has launched several high-priority programs to encourage skilled Chinese to return home — all in an effort to meet the country’s pressing talent demands. One of these programs is the “Thousand Foreign Talents Program.” The program’s goal is to bring 2,000 experienced engineers, scientists, and other experts of Chinese origin back from the West. The government also announced that it aims to cultivate 100 “strategic entrepreneurs” who can lead Chinese firms getting into the ranks of the world’s top 500 countries.
Both efforts are running ahead of target according to Dr. Huiyao Wang, the Director General of the Center for China and Globalization and an advisor to the Chinese government. China had recruited more than 1,500 “high quality talents,” according to Wang, and 300 returnees had been enrolled in management training courses by August 2011. The courses were conducted by senior ministers. These individuals, while re-learning how to operate successfully within the Chinese system, are expected to serve as a critical catalyst in transforming China’s innovation environment in ways that will enhance the country’s competitive edge across a range of key, strategic industries.
China is getting more ambitious, based on the initial recruitment successes of the returnee program.
The Chinese government invited me to attend the International Conference on the “Exchange of Talent” held in Shenzhen on Nov. 5. Vice Premier, Zhang Dejiang launched China’s “Thousand Foreign Talents Program,” which, for the first time, opens China’s doors to skilled foreigners to secure long-term employment in China. The Chinese government announced that it will allow foreign nationals to take senior roles in science and technology sectors and state-owned enterprises. They will also pay foreigners salaries equal to what they can earn at top paying jobs in America. And the government announced that it intends to offer permanent resident-type visas to foreign entrepreneurs.
This announcement was front-page news in China, and its importance should not be underestimated in the U.S. where these developments were not widely covered. These programs, which were announced with amazing fanfare, represent a significant break from the traditional “use Chinese” policies and a greater openness to the outside world. Chinese governors and senior officials from across the country participated in the ceremonies, and the Chinese government claimed the conference had 100,000 attendees. The festivities that accompanied this were nothing short of dazzling, with cultural entertainers and acrobats brought in from all over China.
Vivek Wadhwa
Vivek Wadhwa
Columnist
China opens doors of state-run companies to world’s top talent
AP/AP - In this photo taken Sept. 30, 2011, visitors look at an artwork depicting a 100-yuan Chinese currency at the 2011 Chengdu Biennale in Chengdu in southwestern China's Sichuan province.
Denis Fred Simon, author and Vice-Provost for International Affairs at the University of Oregon was one of the nine foreign experts at the Shenzhen conference. China, said Simon, sees talent as the next big global race for driving competitiveness and innovation. The country is determined to win this race if only to ensure it can complete the goal of transforming its economy. Wang also explained that the Chinese see this new talent pool as the key to moving from a “made in China” orientation to a “created in China” capability. China’s future growth, continued Wang, will rely more on the new talent strategy, even as its past successes were built mainly on its population dividend and investment.
But sometimes things aren’t as rosy as they seem.
Some of the returnees have found themselves victims of discrimination and petty jealousy from those who stayed behind. Moreover, they have struggled to re-adapt to China’s relationship-oriented culture, which stands in sharp contrast to the performance-oriented culture of the West. Compared to the generally transparent set of rules and decision-making processes that are commonplace in U.S. and European research and university settings, returnees are frequently confounded by the “personalized” ways research proposals are evaluated and research grants are distributed. The reality is that despite the good intentions of the program, the Chinese research environment remains plagued by plagiarism, fraud, and other scandals.
There is an even greater challenge, however. Returnees are refusing to make full-time commitments to their new Chinese employers. Many have returned only sporadically, often not meeting the stated residency requirements of the Thousand Talents Program.
The best of the Chinese talent pool abroad has not yet chosen to return to China, especially in the science and technology fields, said Simon. Some who were considering returning home, he said, are still watching and waiting as their peers cope with the challenges of returning. Family considerations also pose an important barrier, said Simon, as many Chinese expatriates based overseas would prefer their children to complete their education abroad and not have to suffer through China’s “examination hell” prior to college.
Discussions with Chinese government leaders in Shenzhen made it clear that Chinese leaders are not satisfied with the level of innovation in the country. I told them that I didn’t believe that China could fix this problem merely through returnees. China would need to learn some of the techniques that Indian industry has employed to upgrade its workforce. China’s most critical challenge will be to create a more conducive environment for entrepreneurship. Innovation requires risk-taking, breaking existing systems and challenging the norms. Within Hu Jintao’s model of a “harmonious” society (what he calls “hexie shehui”), this presents some real challenges.
Until China allows and encourages more “out of the box” thinking and behavior, it simply won’t innovate, nor will it produce the types of breakthrough products top Chinese leaders wish to see coming out of China’s research labs and key enterprises.
y Vivek Wadhwa, Thursday, November 17, 12:48 AM
The top talent in countries around the world have a new suitor: the Chinese government.
China has a severe shortage of skilled talent and, in a policy reversal, has decided to open its doors to talent from around the world. This could mean that the brilliant NASA scientists the U.S. laid off, could find new employment — and a new home — in Shanghai or Beijing.
Chinese research labs have long had difficulty recruiting qualified workers to perform necessary research and development, and its corporations struggle to find competent managers. The situation will likely get worse as China’s high-tech industries grow and it increases its national R&D spending from the present 1.62 percent of GDP, according to the Chinese government, to the planned 2.5 percent by 2020. China’s President Hu Jintao, in May 2010, declared talent development a national priority in order to fill the void. The goal is to dramatically increase the education level of China’s workforce and to build an innovation economy.
China has launched several high-priority programs to encourage skilled Chinese to return home — all in an effort to meet the country’s pressing talent demands. One of these programs is the “Thousand Foreign Talents Program.” The program’s goal is to bring 2,000 experienced engineers, scientists, and other experts of Chinese origin back from the West. The government also announced that it aims to cultivate 100 “strategic entrepreneurs” who can lead Chinese firms getting into the ranks of the world’s top 500 countries.
Both efforts are running ahead of target according to Dr. Huiyao Wang, the Director General of the Center for China and Globalization and an advisor to the Chinese government. China had recruited more than 1,500 “high quality talents,” according to Wang, and 300 returnees had been enrolled in management training courses by August 2011. The courses were conducted by senior ministers. These individuals, while re-learning how to operate successfully within the Chinese system, are expected to serve as a critical catalyst in transforming China’s innovation environment in ways that will enhance the country’s competitive edge across a range of key, strategic industries.
China is getting more ambitious, based on the initial recruitment successes of the returnee program.
The Chinese government invited me to attend the International Conference on the “Exchange of Talent” held in Shenzhen on Nov. 5. Vice Premier, Zhang Dejiang launched China’s “Thousand Foreign Talents Program,” which, for the first time, opens China’s doors to skilled foreigners to secure long-term employment in China. The Chinese government announced that it will allow foreign nationals to take senior roles in science and technology sectors and state-owned enterprises. They will also pay foreigners salaries equal to what they can earn at top paying jobs in America. And the government announced that it intends to offer permanent resident-type visas to foreign entrepreneurs.
This announcement was front-page news in China, and its importance should not be underestimated in the U.S. where these developments were not widely covered. These programs, which were announced with amazing fanfare, represent a significant break from the traditional “use Chinese” policies and a greater openness to the outside world. Chinese governors and senior officials from across the country participated in the ceremonies, and the Chinese government claimed the conference had 100,000 attendees. The festivities that accompanied this were nothing short of dazzling, with cultural entertainers and acrobats brought in from all over China.
Vivek Wadhwa
Vivek Wadhwa
Columnist
China opens doors of state-run companies to world’s top talent
AP/AP - In this photo taken Sept. 30, 2011, visitors look at an artwork depicting a 100-yuan Chinese currency at the 2011 Chengdu Biennale in Chengdu in southwestern China's Sichuan province.
Denis Fred Simon, author and Vice-Provost for International Affairs at the University of Oregon was one of the nine foreign experts at the Shenzhen conference. China, said Simon, sees talent as the next big global race for driving competitiveness and innovation. The country is determined to win this race if only to ensure it can complete the goal of transforming its economy. Wang also explained that the Chinese see this new talent pool as the key to moving from a “made in China” orientation to a “created in China” capability. China’s future growth, continued Wang, will rely more on the new talent strategy, even as its past successes were built mainly on its population dividend and investment.
But sometimes things aren’t as rosy as they seem.
Some of the returnees have found themselves victims of discrimination and petty jealousy from those who stayed behind. Moreover, they have struggled to re-adapt to China’s relationship-oriented culture, which stands in sharp contrast to the performance-oriented culture of the West. Compared to the generally transparent set of rules and decision-making processes that are commonplace in U.S. and European research and university settings, returnees are frequently confounded by the “personalized” ways research proposals are evaluated and research grants are distributed. The reality is that despite the good intentions of the program, the Chinese research environment remains plagued by plagiarism, fraud, and other scandals.
There is an even greater challenge, however. Returnees are refusing to make full-time commitments to their new Chinese employers. Many have returned only sporadically, often not meeting the stated residency requirements of the Thousand Talents Program.
The best of the Chinese talent pool abroad has not yet chosen to return to China, especially in the science and technology fields, said Simon. Some who were considering returning home, he said, are still watching and waiting as their peers cope with the challenges of returning. Family considerations also pose an important barrier, said Simon, as many Chinese expatriates based overseas would prefer their children to complete their education abroad and not have to suffer through China’s “examination hell” prior to college.
Discussions with Chinese government leaders in Shenzhen made it clear that Chinese leaders are not satisfied with the level of innovation in the country. I told them that I didn’t believe that China could fix this problem merely through returnees. China would need to learn some of the techniques that Indian industry has employed to upgrade its workforce. China’s most critical challenge will be to create a more conducive environment for entrepreneurship. Innovation requires risk-taking, breaking existing systems and challenging the norms. Within Hu Jintao’s model of a “harmonious” society (what he calls “hexie shehui”), this presents some real challenges.
Until China allows and encourages more “out of the box” thinking and behavior, it simply won’t innovate, nor will it produce the types of breakthrough products top Chinese leaders wish to see coming out of China’s research labs and key enterprises.