News on China's scientific and technological development.

gadgetcool5 said:

It is voluntary though. The US has no jurisdiction over Europe or Korea or China. They could say screw the US, we are developing our own independent equipment and supply chains. But will they do it? No they won't. And even if it were involuntary, who cares? It makes no difference. At the end of the day, they choose to comply with the US, they will comply with the US. That is all that matters.

And not only chipmakers, but China's own consumers will abandon Huawei. Don't think the home market is safe. You can talk about patriotism all you want, but not many people want to go around with an inferior phone just to be politically correct.

And not only China's chipmakers and consumers, but Huawei's own employees will abandon Huawei. They already are, as many of their talented designers have jumped to other companies. Oppo. Vivo. Xiaomi. Samsung. Apple. There are plenty of alternatives. At the end of the day, no opportunities, no salary, no workers.

In short, Huawei will have no friends. The US government's power is so great that it can control and compel everyone. That is why China should seek better relations with the US instead of fighting.

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You call the act under "pressure and threatened sanction" voluntary? The US did not have jurisdiction over anybody outside US, and yet it was able to force French company Total to abandon its business in Iran. And you think that the French voluntarily gave up their profit? "Jurisdiction" is only useful when arguing on paper and claiming legitimacy, but it has no meaning on the ground if not backed by brute force.

Who cares? You certainly care. Is there any difference? Certainly a huge difference. Because the answers to those questions touch the very bottom of what you were trying to say "Those countries and even Chinese companies are hoping on the bandwagon of the US against China/Huawei." To this I disagree.

Regarding Huawei being abandoned by Chinese consumers, don't make things up (a lie) since you certainly does not live in China and has absolutely no idea of what people there is doing. Besides, Samsung and Apple was abandoned by Chinese consumers in a lightning speed, if you really wish for abandonment of Huawei in China, you may not be able to live that long to see it happen.

The US had "so great power" to compel everyone? It only have the power to compel people whose spine has already been broken by the US, or who have already sold their soles for a cent. Talking about US compelling everyone? Just see who was bothered by the "reimposing sanction on Iran" drama in the UN, NONE.

Seek better relation? You mean surrender? China beat the US in 1950s, so will we do so in 2020s when we are much more stronger than we were in 1950s and the US is much weaker today than they were in 1950s. A better relation for China with US can only be based on victory over US, period. That is the lesson we learnt from Korean and Vietnam.

world is changing china is not a democracy but trains more engineers and scientists than all of the west, china with time can build all of his tecnology for his gigantic market. That's a fact. China is now more powerful than the united states, thanks its great skilled and intelligent people.

vincent said:

In case you don’t know, there are Chinese EDA companies

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Chinese software companies are very capable of creating and perfecting the EDA software tools, what with Chinese programmers always coming out on top in international competition.

The plus point is the software engineers will now be able to communicate directly with the Lithograph machine engineers and have full access to workings of the hardware interface and its software protocols, something which could be problematic if a foreign lithograph machine manufacturer refuses to cooperate and withhold hardware information.

I wonder what US companies China can start taxing... How about taxing Christians?

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gadgetcool5 said:

It is voluntary though. The US has no jurisdiction over Europe or Korea or China. They could say screw the US, we are developing our own independent equipment and supply chains. But will they do it? No they won't. And even if it were involuntary, who cares? It makes no difference. At the end of the day, they choose to comply with the US, they will comply with the US. That is all that matters.

And not only chipmakers, but China's own consumers will abandon Huawei. Don't think the home market is safe. You can talk about patriotism all you want, but not many people want to go around with an inferior phone just to be politically correct.

And not only China's chipmakers and consumers, but Huawei's own employees will abandon Huawei. They already are, as many of their talented designers have jumped to other companies. Oppo. Vivo. Xiaomi. Samsung. Apple. There are plenty of alternatives. At the end of the day, no opportunities, no salary, no workers.

In short, Huawei will have no friends. The US government's power is so great that it can control and compel everyone. That is why China should seek better relations with the US instead of fighting.

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Are you naive? they want to crush peer rivals, no matter how friendly you are to them. Re: Toshiba in the 1980s. Japan was even an ally of the US, yet they were still crushed. Its not sunshine and butterflies if China starts bootlicking the US. The US simply will NEVER tolerate a peer competitor, no matter what.

vincent said:

In case you don’t know, there are Chinese EDA companies

Click to expand...

Quickie said:

Chinese software companies are very capable of creating and perfecting the EDA software tools, what with Chinese programmers always coming out on top in international competition.

The plus point is the software engineers will now be able to communicate directly with the Lithograph machine engineers and have full access to workings of the hardware interface and its software protocols, something which could be problematic if a foreign lithograph machine manufacturer refuses to cooperate and withhold hardware information.

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Good, then China doesn't need USA/foreign technology to make semiconductors , and the USA sanctions against Huawei toothless.

I love how people think China has to obey the US against itself. Oh somehow just because the US has declared no US tech can be used to make chips for China, somehow Chinese companies have to obey that too? China can now violate the hell out of US intellectual property. What is the US going to do? Ban tech sales to China? Go to war? Western tech companies already ban sales to China of their best equipment? So how can China make a more advanced chip? When China does come out with something the US or no one else has, the notorious suspects will then say China stole it from them anyway but made it better. As they use to charge Japan... they can't create... only improve. China already has the equipment to make lesser chips. They can't "make it better" now all of the sudden? China can't steal blue prints for more advanced tech through cyberespionage as charged all the time? But somehow they think when the US says no one can use US technology to make chips for China, even China has to obey that declaration even though they charge all the time China violates intellectual property rights. Again like I've been saying in this forum, why hasn't Trump decoupled from China completely as he has threatened multiple times? It's because there are ramifications that will hurt the US to where even Trump is too scared to do. It will be an unbound China that can violate everything the US doesn't want to see happen and the US can do nothing but go to war. And there Trump was even too afraid to take on North Korea in a war where there are no economic connections to the rest of the world like China has.

cbl21 said:

Are you naive? they want to crush peer rivals, no matter how friendly you are to them. Re: Toshiba in the 1980s. Japan was even an ally of the US, yet they were still crushed. Its not sunshine and butterflies if China starts bootlicking the US. The US simply will NEVER tolerate a peer competitor, no matter what.

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I agree with your statement. One needs to study history from the perspectives of multiple parties. The US will not tolerate any erosion (ally or not) to its hold on the commanding heights of production. The US had been attacking Canada's aerospace industry on multiple occasions. The most recent being the 292% tariff on Bombardier's CSeries jet pushed by Boeing. Afterwards Bombardier announced that it will exit the passenger jet business and will only participate as a component supplier. They had effectively defeated Canada as a system integrator in the passenger jet market.

was the pride of Canadian manufacturing. It was one of the most advanced planes during the late 1950's, a mach 2 capable interceptor first flown in 1957. Generally Canadian aerospace fans view the Prime Minister at the time John Diefenbaker as a national traitor for cancelling the project after being fooled or coerced by the Americans. They pushed the idea that we were entering into an era of long range missiles/ICBMS where fighter jets were a relic of old warfare and is a bad investment. When the project was scrapped, there were no other similar projects in Canada that would employ these engineers. Later they were brain-drained by the US to work for American aerospace companies. Blueprints were ordered to be destroyed.


If some intellectuals in China still believe appeasing the US will solve its problems then they will be in for a rude awakening. Appeasement can only be used as a short term tool to buy time while working on the long term solution rather than having it as the normal state of operation. In reality people respect strength, people may sympathize with the weak but nobody respects them and sympathy doesn't progress this world. American strategists have stated this time and time again, they don't care about intentions, only capability.

If China is to be a respected player on the international stage, it cannot rely on the US's mercy but the pillars of its own creation. Other countries will not feel securing in having close strategic relations with China if it cannot stand strong on its own, but when they are capable of that then it would bring a major shift in global politics. It looks like the hawks in Washington are making a big bet, defeat China in the next decade or create a nation much more strategically secure than before capable of full spectrum competition against it. Other nations are taking note of China's moves, its international standing will depend on how it handles this trade/technology war.

How effective is a tech embargo on China? an anecdote

after the Cox report in 1999, the U.S. put China's space industry on total embargo. a few years later, the French, trying to show the Earth can still turn without the US, made a US-free satellite for China. today China shoots dozens of satellites into space every year, all made in China.

US judge blocks Trump WeChat ban

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Evidence that the messaging app poses a national security risk is 'modest,' court says

PALO ALTO, U.S. -- A federal judge temporarily blocked the Trump administration's WeChat ban early Sunday, just hours before it would have taken effect.

After days of hearings that ended Saturday, Magistrate Judge Laurel Beeler of the U.S. District Court in San Francisco ordered a nationwide injunction against implementing the ban, which had been announced in an Aug. 6 executive order by U.S. President Donald Trump.

A group of U.S.-based WeChat users sued that month to block the ban -- an effort that gained urgency after the Commerce Department published Friday a set of restrictions to take effect Sunday.

Led by New Jersey-based U.S. WeChat Users Alliance nonprofit, the plaintiffs alleged that the executive order and the Commerce Department announcement violated the Constitution and misused the authority granted to the president by the 1977 International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which the order cited.
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