News on China's scientific and technological development.

Oh like Americans won't be paranoid of these companies that leave China for the West like how they're paranoid over Zoom and thus they won't have a company for long. They'd rather choose the US propaganda again when some of these companies in China have people who left the US because of discrimination.

AssassinsMace said:

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Oh like Americans won't be paranoid of these companies that leave China for the West like how they're paranoid over Zoom and thus they won't have a company for long. They'd rather choose the US propaganda again when some of these companies in China have people who left the US because of discrimination.

Click to expand...

Xilinx bought a startup Chinese AI company a few years back to develop for their high end FPGAs. This could affect this operation.

machupicu said:

China’s top memory chip maker can’t wean itself off US for now

• Yangtze Memory Technologies Co currently gets more than 80 per cent of its chip manufacturing equipment from the US and Japan
• The company operates a US$22 billion facility in Wuhan that is by far China’s most advanced factory for 3D NAND flash memory chips

China’s top flash memory chip maker sees no easy way to replace US chip manufacturing equipment, underscoring how a further crackdown on the supply of American technology will devastate the local

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industry.


Yangtze Memory Technologies Co currently gets more than 80 per cent of its equipment from the US and Japan, according to Zheng Jiuli, vice-president in charge of supply chain management. While some Chinese suppliers have made breakthroughs in areas including etching, cleaning and coating, there are not enough local alternatives to replace everything, he added.

"
Long-term investments in innovation and R&D have led to technological advantages” at US and Japanese suppliers, Zheng said. “This is also the reason why their products are currently in the mainstream and are difficult to replace.”


The deficit of basic chip making equipment complicates Beijing’s ambitions to reduce its reliance on its geopolitical rival.

..

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Making DRAM is actually very much easier than making Chips for Mobile Phones which require 5nm - 7nm process and EUV Lithographs to be competitive.

Most DRAM on the market today are made with 16nm to 25nm Processes which means they do not require the most advanced Semiconductor equipment.

There are 3 DRAM makers in China. YMTC uses the 20nm process. Changxin Memory uses 19nm and Innotron uses the 25nm Process.

On case of any contingencies local equipment can easily replace the foreign equipment. The SMEE 45nm Immersion Lithograph can easily replace the ASML and Nikon Lithographs. Same goes for all the other foreign equipment.

YMTC recently revealed that its latest DRAM FAB has a dual production line, one with foreign equipment and another with local equipment. The only equipment that could not be produced locally as yet was a type of furnace that had to be imported from Japan. Local companies are working on this product. Apart from that the localised production line for DRAM was complete.

WTAN said:

Making DRAM is actually very much easier than making Chips for Mobile Phones which require 5nm - 7nm process and EUV Lithographs to be competitive.

Most DRAM on the market today are made with 16nm to 25nm Processes which means they do not require the most advanced Semiconductor equipment.

There are 3 DRAM makers in China. YMTC uses the 20nm process. Changxin Memory uses 19nm and Innotron uses the 25nm Process.

On case of any contingencies local equipment can easily replace the foreign equipment. The SMEE 45nm Immersion Lithograph can easily replace the ASML and Nikon Lithographs. Same goes for all the other foreign equipment.

YMTC recently revealed that its latest DRAM FAB has a dual production line, one with foreign equipment and another with local equipment. The only equipment that could not be produced locally as yet was a type of furnace that had to be imported from Japan. Local companies are working on this product. Apart from that the localised production line for DRAM was complete.

Click to expand...

Hi WTAN,

From your post, almost all spectrum of Chip making had an ingenious equivalent except for EUV? with 14nm equipment next year, 7nm late 2021 or 2022, so by 2025, at least 5nm is achievable? If that is so, only TSMC 2NM is ahead by 1 generation? Too optimistic or doable?

I hope Tencent know what its doing, they will be the next target of sanction, hope they had an ingenious replacement plan ready, or is there any ingenious Chip available for replacement?

from cnTechPost

Intel, Tencent unveil new server with third-gen Xeon scalable processors
2020-09-11 21:09:05 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
0


Intel and Tencent announced the joint development and launch of Tencent Cloud's first Star Sea Four-way Server with third-generation Xeon scalable processors at the Tencent 2020 Global Digital Ecosystem Conference today.

Equipped with four third-generation Intel Xeon Scalable processors and second-generation Intel Proton persistent memory, the Tencent Cloud Star Sea Four-way Server is the first large-scale application of RAS technology, according to Intel.

It is capable of meeting all business scenarios, including general purpose computing, heterogeneous computing, bare metal and high performance computing.

Based on Intel deep learning acceleration technology (Bfloat 16), Intel vector neural network instructions (VNNI) and Intel AVX-512 extended instruction set, its corresponding cloud server instances show great performance advantages in AI scenarios, with a reported 1.89x improvement in AI scenario processing capacity and a single-node improvement in database service. 2.16x.


Intel also claims 117%, 22%, and 30% improvement in density, thermal capacity, and fan energy efficiency, respectively, as well as a significant 50% reduction in downtime.
Tencent is also using third-generation Intel Xeon Scalable processors in the Tencent Cloud Tiny Intelligent Voice and Video Service Access Platform, and has significantly improved its AI capabilities through Intel Deep Learning Acceleration Technology (Bfloat 16).

ansy1968 said:

Hi WTAN,

From your post, almost all spectrum of Chip making had an ingenious equivalent except for EUV? with 14nm equipment next year, 7nm late 2021 or 2022, so by 2025, at least 5nm is achievable? If that is so, only TSMC 2NM is ahead by 1 generation? Too optimistic or doable?

Click to expand...

What you wrote sounds doable. I think the EUV should be out before 2025.
Huawei plans to use the Harmony OS on its own phones next year.
So does this mean that Huawei might be producing its own 14nm Chips in its own FAB next year?

WTAN said:

Making DRAM is actually very much easier than making Chips for Mobile Phones which require 5nm - 7nm process and EUV Lithographs to be competitive.

Most DRAM on the market today are made with 16nm to 25nm Processes which means they do not require the most advanced Semiconductor equipment.

There are 3 DRAM makers in China. YMTC uses the 20nm process. Changxin Memory uses 19nm and Innotron uses the 25nm Process.

On case of any contingencies local equipment can easily replace the foreign equipment. The SMEE 45nm Immersion Lithograph can easily replace the ASML and Nikon Lithographs. Same goes for all the other foreign equipment.

YMTC recently revealed that its latest DRAM FAB has a dual production line, one with foreign equipment and another with local equipment. The only equipment that could not be produced locally as yet was a type of furnace that had to be imported from Japan. Local companies are working on this product. Apart from that the localised production line for DRAM was complete.

Click to expand...

Wait...ain't Changxin=Innotron?

YMTC=Yangtze is the one making NAND SSD not DRAM.

WTAN said:

What you wrote sounds doable. I think the EUV should be out before 2025.
Huawei plans to use the Harmony OS on its own phones next year.
So does this mean that Huawei might be producing its own 14nm Chips in its own FAB next year?

Click to expand...

Hi WTAN,

Learn a lot from you, Its my greatest regret that I didnt take an engineering course during my younger years.

ansy1968 said:

I hope Tencent know what its doing, they will be the next target of sanction, hope they had an ingenious replacement plan ready, or is there any ingenious Chip available for replacement?

from cnTechPost

Intel, Tencent unveil new server with third-gen Xeon scalable processors
2020-09-11 21:09:05 GMT+8 | cnTechPost

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0

Intel and Tencent announced the joint development and launch of Tencent Cloud's first Star Sea Four-way Server with third-generation Xeon scalable processors at the Tencent 2020 Global Digital Ecosystem Conference today.

Equipped with four third-generation Intel Xeon Scalable processors and second-generation Intel Proton persistent memory, the Tencent Cloud Star Sea Four-way Server is the first large-scale application of RAS technology, according to Intel.

It is capable of meeting all business scenarios, including general purpose computing, heterogeneous computing, bare metal and high performance computing.

Based on Intel deep learning acceleration technology (Bfloat 16), Intel vector neural network instructions (VNNI) and Intel AVX-512 extended instruction set, its corresponding cloud server instances show great performance advantages in AI scenarios, with a reported 1.89x improvement in AI scenario processing capacity and a single-node improvement in database service. 2.16x.


Intel also claims 117%, 22%, and 30% improvement in density, thermal capacity, and fan energy efficiency, respectively, as well as a significant 50% reduction in downtime.
Tencent is also using third-generation Intel Xeon Scalable processors in the Tencent Cloud Tiny Intelligent Voice and Video Service Access Platform, and has significantly improved its AI capabilities through Intel Deep Learning Acceleration Technology (Bfloat 16).

Click to expand...

This is so wrong. With Intel? Just waiting for entry into the US Entity List.

ansy1968 said:

Hi WTAN,

From your post, almost all spectrum of Chip making had an ingenious equivalent except for EUV? with 14nm equipment next year, 7nm late 2021 or 2022, so by 2025, at least 5nm is achievable? If that is so, only TSMC 2NM is ahead by 1 generation? Too optimistic or doable?

Click to expand...

Let's keep in mind that past 5nm the cost may be too enormous to be commercially viable due to diminishing returns. Other innovations such as carbon nano tubes and 3D stacking may be more useful to increase performance.