News on China's scientific and technological development.

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emblem21

Major
Registered Member
WTAN said:
High Energy Ion implanter developed by CETC. More local Semiconductor Equipment on the way.

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Talk about the Trump administration failing in every single way in stopping China's rise, they only made it quicker and given they amount of hate sent China's way, it has only helped to ensure that anymore separatist activity is going to be far harder to do. Now all that needs to happen is the Trump administration to declare martial law on his own population and for the people there to rise up to help give China the time to perfect there new technology and it will be gg to those crazy bastards. I wonder, how many processes are required to talk there chip capability to 7nm and then to 5nm.
 
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Jiang ZeminFanboy

Jiang ZeminFanboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
WTAN said:
This latest sanction is a desparate last ditch effort by the Trump Administration to try to stop Huawei's Business. They probably heard about Huawei's plans to set up FABs to manufacture 40nm, 28nm and eventually 14nm and so forth. Unfortunately they will not suceed in stopping Huawei, just slowing it down a little while Huawei makes efforts in starting its own Chip production FAB with the SMEE 22/28nm Litho machine.

Huawei will be setting up a FAB with Local equipment to produce 28nm Chips next year. This will be sufficient to make FPGAs and SOCs for its 5G Base Stations. I can bet you that 14nm Chips will be produced by Huawei shortly after for its Mobile Phones. The 14nm Chip Tech is mature and is already being produced by a number of FABs in China and Huawei will eventually get its hands on this 14nm Finfet design. After that Huawei will look at 7nm Chips.

SMIC is currently already setting up a FAB in Beijing to produce 28nm Chips using all local equipment. News is that the new SMEE 22/28nm Litho Machine will be used in this FAB.

Apart from the new SMEE 28nm Litho Machine, quite a large number of 14nm to 28nm Semiconductor Equipments will be released by Local Companies by next year. This will allow fully localised Chip production lines to appear by next year.

Overall this latest action by the Trump Admin may delay Huawei by 6-12 months but it will ensure that more FABS with Localised equipment will be built.
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So the current SMIC 14nm process uses some tech from the USA and it can't help with the production of chips for phones? I remember that some phones were made with SMIC help for Huawei, is it still possible?
 
free_6ix9ine

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
nastya1 said:
Can you explain how ASML actually shut down the machine. As a company i have the power to ban ASML employee on site.
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Your oversimplifying, just because you ban ASML employees doesn't mean your machine will work. Plus,
latenlazy said:
Output. The problem is output. For effective photoetching what matters is the total quantity of photons. A smaller wavelength means a higher energy photon. For the same amount of energy input you will get fewer shorter wavelength photons than longer wavelength photons. X-ray light sources certainly exist, but the ones that exist just don’t generate enough photons to make an effective scanner (putting aside how the high energy photons from X-rays cause secondary interactions in your etch process that would pose their own problems). It’s not like generating EUV light was a challenge in principle either. What made it difficult was finding a way to do it that would generate sufficient photon count output for a production quality scanner.
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Couls something like this be hypothetically useful for x ray lithography as a light source?:
 
free_6ix9ine

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
latenlazy said:
Output. The problem is output. For effective photoetching what matters is the total quantity of photons. A smaller wavelength means a higher energy photon. For the same amount of energy input you will get fewer shorter wavelength photons than longer wavelength photons. X-ray light sources certainly exist, but the ones that exist just don’t generate enough photons to make an effective scanner (putting aside how the high energy photons from X-rays cause secondary interactions in your etch process that would pose their own problems). It’s not like generating EUV light was a challenge in principle either. What made it difficult was finding a way to do it that would generate sufficient photon count output for a production quality scanner.
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Could you hypothetically use something like this as a light source for x ray litho?
 
free_6ix9ine

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
ILikeChina said:
So the current SMIC 14nm process uses some tech from the USA and it can't help with the production of chips for phones? I remember that some phones were made with SMIC help for Huawei, is it still possible?
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Most definitely it uses tech from the US. Chip for phones is less of a priority for Huawei than chips for base stations which don't need 7nm. If China can build a fab that makes 28nm node with domestic equipment that will go a long way to solve the most urgent problems.
 
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Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
free_6ix9ine said:
Most definitely it uses tech from the US. Chip for phones is less of a priority for Huawei than chips for base stations which don't need 7nm. If China can build a fab that makes 28nm node with domestic equipment that will go a long way to solve the most urgent problems.
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SMIC already stated that they will comply with US rules regarding the entities list. SMIC may produce chips using domestic machines, but they still use US software to design chips.
 
free_6ix9ine

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
ZeEa5KPul said:
Quite significant. An important step in the semiconductor manufacturing process has now been fully indigenized.
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Getting closer to a domestic fab with no or minimal foreign equipment/inputs. Even if it doesn't make 7nm node, it would be a massive step to neutralize any sanctions. After November when Trump loses, Applied materials and LAM must be freaking out that they may lose out on the biggest growth story in Chip equipment in recent memory, and will be furiously lobbying Biden to losen sanctions against Huawei.
 
free_6ix9ine

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Petrolicious88 said:
SMIC already stated that they will comply with US rules regarding the entities list. SMIC may produce chips using domestic machines, but they still use US software to design chips.
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But do they produce chips with domestic machine? I'm pretty sure they still use plenty of Applied materials machines.
 
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