News on China's scientific and technological development.

broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
Hendrik_2000 said:
They have to built 15 m Dia tunnel,boring machine. I have no doubt they can built it
Via JSCH from Pakdef. The largest dia machine that they built is 9m. This machine is marvel of technology with high accuracy
Largest Chinese-made tunnel boring machine completed
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2017/08/02

China’s largest domestic-made tunnel boring machine (TBM) rolled off the assembly line in Kunming, Yunnan Province, on Tuesday.

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That is not the biggest tbm built by China.
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is the one, reported a few days ago:
Tech breakthrough puts China among leading makers of tunnel borers
(CNTV) 15:09, October 27, 2017

The China Railway Group (CREC) on Thursday announced its completion of a huge tunnel boring machine (TBM) with advanced capabilities for drilling in wet conditions, a breakthrough which the company sees as a demonstration of its world-leading status.

TBMs are tube-shaped monsters used to drill underground tunnels. They have massive blades on their shield-like fronts which can break through harder rocks compared with traditional drilling and bombing method.

The newly-built TBM is 15.03 meters wide, about 4,000 tons in weight and 100 meters in length.

According to a report on tunneltalk.com, there are only two TBMs in the world with a diameter larger than 17 meters. The size of all the other mega-TBMs is below 16 meters. The new TBM by the CREC ranks 10th in the world.

"This TBM is a sign that our technology has already caught up with, if not surpassed, the world's best," said Liu Hui, chief engineer at the CREC.

Slurry-balanced

The machine is also the largest TBM built by China with a feature called slurry-balancing.

When using a TBM to drill a tunnel, the machine may turn away from its designed route because the material it is boring into is too soft compared to rock and mud.

Modern TBMs use slurry to balance the pressure, and stabilize the machine. Slurry can also help flush out the drill cuttings.

Developing countries like China have previously been unable to develop slurry-balancing borers, so have had to import expensive TBMs from the West. That's why China was highly motivated to develop its own technology.

The new machine will be first used in an underwater tunnel project in south China's Shantou City.

"The rocks in our tunnel are too hard, and composed of various materials," said Xiao Guanping, a major investor. "This machine is customized to deal with our problem."
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AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
All they're doing is hypocritically spinning and doing an end around on something if they did it there would be no problem but if you do it, it's an act of war. The Iraq War was a ruse spelled out by Dick Cheney in the Project for a New American Century report he co-authored a decade before with many people in Bush's cabinet of a plan to control the world's oil supply. China is controlling water that belongs to China. Which one's worse?
 
B

B.I.B.

Captain
vesicles said:
Has there been any precedence for a country to mess with its neighbor's key resources? It sounds like China is planning to do something very naughty... How would India properly respond without going to war? Is there any precedence for something like this?
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Japan accusing China of violating an agreement to jointly develop the Chunxiao/Shinkaba gasfield when instead, China started to explore and drill on her own.
 
S

sanblvd

Junior Member
Registered Member
Last time I check, this proposed water channel is from Tibet (part of China) to Xinjing (Another part of China), therefore legally wise there is nothing India or any other country can do from a nation building something on its own homeland.

Once its build and put in effect it won't automatically be a threat to India, for example if China only divert 5-10% of water toward Xinjing every year to slowly fill up the inland reservoir I doubt India and other downstream country will even notice it. What it does is give China the option to mess with India in case India tries something stupid like do another Dotlam or directly harming other Chinese interest.

And from India's expansionist and irresponsible record, I think its wise that China have this leverage, if anything to prevent India from doing something stupid.
 
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
sanblvd said:
Last time I check, this proposed water channel is from Tibet (part of China) to Xinjing (Another part of China), therefore legally wise there is nothing India or any other country can do from a nation building something on its own homeland.

Once its build and put in effect it won't automatically be a threat to India, for example if China only divert 5-10% of water toward Xinjing every year to slowly fill up the inland reservoir I doubt India and other downstream country will even notice it. What it does is give China the option to mess with India in case India tries something stupid like do another Dotlam or directly harming other Chinese interest.

And from India's expansionist and irresponsible record, I think its wise that China have this leverage, if anything to prevent India from doing something stupid.
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I'm not sure if it's that simple. With the water diverting, you are potentially targeting / threatening civilians, billions of them, in India. Having a military standoff is one thing, but threatening the livelihood of over a billion Indian civilians would be something else.

Of course, if China wants to do it, no one can stop them. However, the implications to China's image of peaceful rise would be damaged. Western media would have a field day with it and make China into the threat to world peace. I don't China should do it.

In fact, I don't think China will do it. They have invested heavily in the One Belt One Road, precisely because they want to develop the west including Xinjiang through commerce and trade.

At this point, China's image as a peaceful superpower whose aim is to help everyone in the world to get wealthy is pivotal, absolutely pivotal. Such water diverting thing will literally destroy that image. If the event itself won't damage China's image, it will give ammunition to those who hate China and allow them to paint China into an evil giant who wants to enslave the world.

This is a strategically unwise thing to do...
 
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
in fact, this water diverting thing sounds like a desperate attempt made by a weak country that cannot deal with its super powerful neighbor. We know that China has plenty ways, cheaper, more effective and less alarming ways, to deal with India. In fact, China has managed India quite well. With the new economic development plans, China will be even more effective in managing India. Why change things when they are being effective?
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
vesicles said:
in fact, this water diverting thing sounds like a desperate attempt made by a weak country that cannot deal with its super powerful neighbor. We know that China has plenty ways, cheaper, more effective and less alarming ways, to deal with India. In fact, China has managed India quite well. With the new economic development plans, China will be even more effective in managing India. Why change things when they are being effective?
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Don't agree with your first assessment. If a weak nation does this to a strong nation out of desperation, they're likely to get their asses beat for it. But if a strong nation does this to a weak nation, the weak nation can only save itself by aligning with the strong nation.

But that's beside the point; the purpose of this project is not to threaten India; threatening India is a by-product. The purpose it is to turn a desert into arable farmland. Trade or no trade, this is still a huge improvement. China may in the end find a slightly less menacing way to do it in order to look kinder, but it should not be at the ultimate expense of irrigating Xinjiang.

Lastly, if you look at the Brahmaputra, it runs through East India only; it does not irrigate the Indian mainland and nowhere near 1 billion Indians depend on it. As a matter of fact, Bangladesh is the country that truly relies on the Brahmaputra and that's mainly where my hesitations come from as I see no reason to scare Dhaka at all since they are a fine neighbor.
 
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S

sanblvd

Junior Member
Registered Member
vesicles said:
I'm not sure if it's that simple. With the water diverting, you are potentially targeting / threatening civilians, billions of them, in India. Having a military standoff is one thing, but threatening the livelihood of over a billion Indian civilians would be something else.

Of course, if China wants to do it, no one can stop them. However, the implications to China's image of peaceful rise would be damaged. Western media would have a field day with it and make China into the threat to world peace. I don't China should do it.

In fact, I don't think China will do it. They have invested heavily in the One Belt One Road, precisely because they want to develop the west including Xinjiang through commerce and trade.

At this point, China's image as a peaceful superpower whose aim is to help everyone in the world to get wealthy is pivotal, absolutely pivotal. Such water diverting thing will literally destroy that image. If the event itself won't damage China's image, it will give ammunition to those who hate China and allow them to paint China into an evil giant who wants to enslave the world.

This is a strategically unwise thing to do...
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Lets put it this way, according to the Western Media China is already that and more, there is literally nothing China can do that is alright, China is already bullying Philippine and Vietnam, China is already forcefully taking over Dotlam, China is already occupying Tibet, China is already repressing its 1.3 billion people bla bla bla. The West have already tarnished China's imagine for more than 20 years and they will continue to do so regardless of China's action peaceful or not so peaceful. I live in US and you have no idea how many time people told me how lucky I am to be here or joke that I eat dogs and cats.

So basically the West is so stupid that they have been crying wolf for the past 20 years so in effect it have already created a secondary effect that people already expect China to be evil... so why not do a bit actual evil things, what can the West media do? Cry more wolfs? And this make a difference in people's mind.. how? I say build the river and let it be damned.

Lets put it with another example, before aung san suu kyi took over as Myanmar's leader, Myanmar's military government has one of the worst reputation in Western media, so when they kill people the West condemn them as usual but they may only dial up the notch in its reporting if at all. Now that aung san suu kyi is president and she does the EXACT SAME THING to those rebels, and that's why you see the West is throwing a sisi fit over it, because she the Nobel peace prize winner, icon of peace and democracy bla bla bla is suppose to not do do that, therefore you saw so many article and media coverage of this recently. If she was NOT in charge, if the military were still in charge and Myanmar did the same thing, I highly doubt you see the same freakout from the media. Same principle for West's crying wolf of China for past 20 years.

PS. I think you missed my point when I said when it build it won't automatically threaten other country, if China only divert very little water for each year then China benefits and other people wont' notice, but it does give China the option hold leverage over others.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
sanblvd said:
Lets put it this way, according to the Western Media China is already that and more, there is literally nothing China can do that is alright, China is already bullying Philippine and Vietnam, China is already forcefully taking over Dotlam, China is already occupying Tibet, China is already repressing its 1.3 billion people bla bla bla. The West have already tarnished China's imagine for more than 20 years and they will continue to do so regardless of China's action peaceful or not so peaceful. I live in US and you have no idea how many time people told me how lucky I am to be here or joke that I eat dogs and cats.

So basically the West is so stupid that they have been crying wolf for the past 20 years so in effect it have already created a secondary effect that people already expect China to be evil... so why not do a bit actual evil things, what can the West media do? Cry more wolfs? And this make a difference in people's mind.. how? I say build the river and let it be damned.

Lets put it with another example, before aung san suu kyi took over as Myanmar's leader, Myanmar's military government has one of the worst reputation in Western media, so when they kill people the West condemn them as usual but they may only dial up the notch in its reporting if at all. Now that aung san suu kyi is president and she does the EXACT SAME THING to those rebels, and that's why you see the West is throwing a sisi fit over it, because she the Nobel peace prize winner, icon of peace and democracy bla bla bla is suppose to not do do that, therefore you saw so many article and media coverage of this recently. If she was NOT in charge, if the military were still in charge and Myanmar did the same thing, I highly doubt you see the same freakout from the media. Same principle for West's crying wolf of China for past 20 years.

PS. I think you missed my point when I said when it build it won't automatically threaten other country, if China only divert very little water for each year then China benefits and other people wont' notice, but it does give China the option hold leverage over others.
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The mistake in that line of thinking is the believing Western Media is the only thing that matters.

China's relations with its neighbor is not dictated by western propaganda, it's dictated by real interests.

For example, it doesn't matter how much anti-China bias the Vietnam government feeds its people, Vietnam still tries to maintain a cordial relationship with China. It didn't matter how much anti-China propaganda the Filipino public was fed, Duterte still pivoted to China. He did so because he realized that having China as a friend was better than having it as an enemy.

Sure, China can proceed as you describe, nobody would be able to stop it. However, what about China's other projects? Is the irrigation of Xinjiang worth the Belt and Road initiative?

The idea here is cooperation and win-win. China wants to do business, and you don't get business partners by threatening to cut off their water. That's the mafia's way.
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
The more I think about this project, the more benign and non-weaponized it looks.

First of all, the Brahmaputra only irrigates East India, an area that mainland India only wants to control but doesn't care about the prosperity of. Then, according to Hendrik, 70% of the water comes from local Indian rainfall anyway so even if the entire flow from China were to be stopped (which I don't think is even possible), it'd still have 70%, which I assume could toss things around, but is not immediately life-threatening to those in India. Thirdly, in order to do a little damage to India, China would have to put Bangladesh on the grill big time because Bangladesh is completely reliant on the Brahmaputra and that would be China turning friends into enemies; that's a Donald Trump move, not Xi Jinping at all. There are many ways to deal with India but diverting water from the Brahmaputra seems one of the worst and least effective "weapons."

Rather, if this project comes to fruition, I believe that China would use this most wisely to only benefit itself without using it as a weapon against anyone. China would carefully measure the water that can be taken from the river without causing significant stress to downstream ecosystems thus slowly irrigating Xinjiang into "California" without damaging East India or Bangladesh. Just a big win for China with no losers. I think this is the designed purpose of the project and that's how it will move forward.
 
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