News on China's scientific and technological development.

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think that the regulation of demanding local production is NOT a real reason, but just a cover story.

There is no reason that the Chinese company would refuse to setup a local factory to produce HSR trains. On the contrary, there is already Chinese invested factory in the U.S.
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China’s biggest rail manufacturing company is setting its sights on the United States. It broke ground on Thursday for a $60 million plant in Springfield, Mass., that will assemble new cars for Boston’s subway system.
There is no reason not to do it again in case of HSR.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The macro view of the R&D in Asia.
China still has a long way to go before becoming a hi-tech country, but the trends is very promising.


Asia takes lead in rush to monetise innovations
Financial Times London (Nikkei)

Within Asia, the big story is China, which has experienced much the fastest growth in patenting of any large country since the start of this century. Although this does not come as a surprise, given the speed of Chinese industrial development, the figures are still remarkable.
...
“While the Chinese growth rate in patenting since 2000 does stand out, it started far behind its competitors,” says Mariagrazia Squicciarini, OECD patent specialist. Mainland China had not caught up with Taiwan by 2012 and the Asian powerhouses of Japan and Korea are still well ahead in absolute numbers. “Japan has always had a positive attitude towards IP rights embedded in its business culture,” she adds. China does not have such a tradition but “there is an active policy by the Chinese government to foster patenting”.
...
Most Chinese patents do not reach the international arena — and are therefore not counted in the OECD or EPO data.
...
Many foreign companies are reluctant to patent in China, explains Mark Schankerman, intellectual property expert at the London School of Economics, “because it has been almost impossible to enforce patent claims through the Chinese courts”.
...
Prof Schankerman compares China’s attitude today with that of the US in the early 19th century. “Americans were then ripping off IP from the UK because they were consumers rather producers of technology,” he says. “Now the US is in the vanguard of producers and the Chinese are like the old Americans.”
...
Prof Schankerman predicts that Beijing will soon encourage this trend by increasing enforcement. “One reason is that it wants to encourage foreign investment, which will not come if IP is systematically stolen,” he says. “The other reason is that China is moving from being a low-wage consumer to become a producer of technology.”

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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I think that the regulation of demanding local production is NOT a real reason, but just a cover story.

There is no reason that the Chinese company would refuse to setup a local factory to produce HSR trains. On the contrary, there is already Chinese invested factory in the U.S.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


There is no reason not to do it again in case of HSR.
Well there is one reason... Lack of interest. The US is Road dominated, The era of the Train dominated US is long over and that rail that remains is mostly Industrial rail. Passenger rail for long haul has fallen deep into decline AMTRAK is notorious for being late and is kept alive only by Subsidy. Subway or Short rail is viable in some locations but limited to major cities well more rural area's long ago ripped up the trolley tracks. There are some major city runs for which HSR would be nice but are subject to the whims of politics and the question of funding NY to DC, Boston to NY, LA to Vegas and others but the Major California project has been controversial.
In other news LA to Vegas is off.
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China will not build L.A.-to-Vegas rail line — U.S. company calls the deal off
High-speed rail

Nine months after announcing that China would help build a high-speed rail line from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, the private U.S. company behind the plan said late Wednesday that the deal was off.

XpressWest said the decision to terminate the relationship with China Railway International was based “primarily upon difficulties associated with timely performance and CRI’s challenges in obtaining required authority to proceed with required development activities.”

XpressWest indicated that its “biggest challenge” was a federal government requirement that high-speed trains must be manufactured in the United States to secure regulatory approvals.

“As everyone knows, there are no high-speed trains manufactured in the United States,” the company said in a statement. “This inflexible requirement has been a fundamental barrier to financing high-speed rail in our country. For the past 10 years, we have patiently waited for policymakers to recognize high-speed rail in the United States is a new enterprise and that allowing trains from countries with decades of safe high-speed rail experience is needed to connect the Southwest region and start this new industry.”

NEWSLETTER: Get the day's top headlines from Times Editor Davan Maharaj >>

The news broke in China on Thursday, a public holiday, and China Railway International representatives were not immediately available for comment.

China launched its domestic high-speed rail service in 2007 and has the world’s most extensive network of such trains, covering more than 12,000 miles. In 2011, two trains collided near the city of Wenzhou, killing 40 people, raising doubts about the quality and safety of China’s trains and operating system, though there has not been a crash since then.

The country is now trying to export its rail technology, vying for contracts in Mexico, Southeast Asia and elsewhere. The L.A.-to Vegas route would have been China’s first such contract in the United States.

China’s high-speed rail lines are owned and operated by the China Railway Corp., a state-run entity formerly called the Railway Ministry.

The XpressWest-China venture was announced suddenly in September just days ahead of President Xi Jinping’s visit to the United States. But details were scant.

XpressWest, formerly called DesertXpress, said it had formed a joint venture with China Railway International USA, a consortium led by China Railway. China Railway International stated that it would provide initial capital of $100 million.

Yang Zhongmin, chairman of China Railway International, said in September that the deal would be a “landmark in overseas investment for the Chinese railway sector and serve as a model of international cooperation.”

A Los Angeles-to-Las Vegas bullet train has long been discussed. XpressWest had been talking about a 185-mile route that would run adjacent to heavily traveled Interstate 15 from Las Vegas to Victorville, 85 miles northeast of downtown Los Angeles.

But in wake of the September announcement, Chinese officials described the project as a 230-mile route with an additional stop in Palmdale and eventual service throughout the Los Angeles area using some of the same track that would be used by the publicly backed California high-speed rail project.

“The team at XpressWest is optimistic CRI and its affiliates will one day succeed in establishing a viable presence in the United States rail market; however, our ambitions outpace CRI’s ability to move the project forward timely and efficiently,” XpressWest said Wednesday after terminating the deal. “XpressWest is undeterred by this development and remains dedicated to completing its high-speed passenger rail project.”

XpressWest would now “aggressively pursue” other available development partnerships and options “expected to result in a more efficient and cost-effective project implementation experience,” Chief Executive Tony Marnell said.

A ridership study is underway and should be finished in August, the company said.

Federal railroad records indicate that XpressWest had secured approvals and permits from a number of federal agencies for the 185-mile route. Additional permits, approvals and environmental analysis would be needed if the 230-mile proposal were to move forward.

XpressWest said it is awaiting the completion of the final environmental work required for the development of the line connecting the project to Los Angeles through Victorville and Palmdale, with approvals expected no later than September. Once that is finished, the company said, it would renew its request to the federal government for support.

“We are hopeful policymakers in Washington, D.C., will allow the Federal Railroad Administration to adopt a more flexible and realistic approach to support high speed rail,” the company said. “The real question is: do those in Washington, D.C., have the courage and vision to proceed or is our leadership going to force projects throughout the United States to seek financial support for infrastructure in our country from foreign governments?”
 

solarz

Brigadier
Well there is one reason... Lack of interest. The US is Road dominated, The era of the Train dominated US is long over and that rail that remains is mostly Industrial rail. Passenger rail for long haul has fallen deep into decline AMTRAK is notorious for being late and is kept alive only by Subsidy. Subway or Short rail is viable in some locations but limited to major cities well more rural area's long ago ripped up the trolley tracks. There are some major city runs for which HSR would be nice but are subject to the whims of politics and the question of funding NY to DC, Boston to NY, LA to Vegas and others but the Major California project has been controversial.
In other news LA to Vegas is off.
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What I take away from that article is that there are a lot of entrepreneurs interested in partnering with Chinese enterprises for projects on American soil, and that the Chinese enterprises are interested as well. However, federal regulations just stonewall these initiatives.

Eventually, I think, the Chinese enterprises will just stop trying and turn their attention elsewhere.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Well there is one reason... Lack of interest. The US is Road dominated, The era of the Train dominated US is long over and that rail that remains is mostly Industrial rail. Passenger rail for long haul has fallen deep into decline AMTRAK is notorious for being late and is kept alive only by Subsidy. Subway or Short rail is viable in some locations but limited to major cities well more rural area's long ago ripped up the trolley tracks. There are some major city runs for which HSR would be nice but are subject to the whims of politics and the question of funding NY to DC, Boston to NY, LA to Vegas and others but the Major California project has been controversial.
In other news LA to Vegas is off.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
That is part of what I said that "lack of local production" is not the reason. Lack of interest in HSR is.

My post was more of aiming at the notion by SB that Chinese company lacks local involvement than Japanese, German and French companies.
 
What I take away from that article is that there are a lot of entrepreneurs interested in partnering with Chinese enterprises for projects on American soil, and that the Chinese enterprises are interested as well. However, federal regulations just stonewall these initiatives.

Eventually, I think, the Chinese enterprises will just stop trying and turn their attention elsewhere.

LA to LV is actually a viable market for HSR. I have driven through it numerous times and the traffic is terrible, full of slow trucks and tourist buses and hazardous because of the mountainous inclines and mixture of crowded traffic from crawling trucks/buses and over-speeding automobiles. Most of these traffic terminates in LV. HSR would be more comfortable, enjoyable, efficient, economical and environmentally friendly, as well faster and safer. The regulators are doing the public a disservice. But whatever. As you said, just stop trying and turn your attention elsewhere
 
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solarz

Brigadier
LA to LV is actually a viable market for HSR. I have driven through it numerous times and the traffic is terrible, full of slow trucks and tourist buses and hazardous because of the mountainous inclines and mixture of crowded traffic from crawling trucks/buses and over-speeding automobiles. Most of these traffic terminates in LV. HSR would be more comfortable, enjoyable, efficient, economical and environmentally friendly, as well faster and safer. The regulators are doing the public a disservice. But whatever. As you said, just stop trying and turn your attention elsewhere

It's really interesting that the US administration has no problem with American companies outsourcing jobs to China, but puts up all sorts of barriers when Chinese companies want to create jobs in the US.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I remember reading that the Chinese bidder hoping to win the SF to LA route said they were going to make the trains in California. I don't know if it's the same people involved in the LA to LV route but that would solve that problem but then again the LA to LV route would probably finish earlier than the SF to LA route so it would probably be too late unless there's a delay long enough. Another different problem is the LA end of the line isn't even in LA. People in LA have to drive I believe it was around 50 miles to get to the station. But yeah I'm one to believe that they just don't want China to dominate HSR in the world. Everyone else's have been around a lot longer and they haven't made inroads so it's because they're too expensive which adds to the fact they don't want China to dominate the industry.
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
Look PRC slapped the same local production and worse technical transfer and requirement of joint venture with a domestic manufacturer to deliver HSR trainsets to mainland China.
What goes around comes around.
At least the US doesn't have such governmental piracy type regulations.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Building things in California... that's a laugh. Even Hollywood moves movie production out of state because of the regulations and costs of doing business in the Bluest of blue states.

IMHO this was doomed from day one. If HSR was really wanted here in the US Then it should be an Indigenous program. but that's me talking.
 
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