News on China's scientific and technological development.

TerraN_EmpirE · Jun 6, 2016

Of course Equation... Here is the rub. Since this is a Chinese system mostly likely to be implemented inside the PRC the regional carriers about to take the hit will be...Chinese not foreign carriers.
Of course the other Rub of this is that even as High speed as High speed Rail, Aircraft still have the speed edge.

solarz · Jun 6, 2016

TerraN_EmpirE said:
Of course Equation... Here is the rub. Since this is a Chinese system mostly likely to be implemented inside the PRC the regional carriers about to take the hit will be...Chinese not foreign carriers.
Of course the other Rub of this is that even as High speed as High speed Rail, Aircraft still have the speed edge.

Which is probably why a lot of Chinese airlines are moving to the international market.

Under a certain distance, HSR has definite advantages over flying. First, they can carry more passengers, therefore ticket prices are cheaper. Second, train stations can be built in the centre of a city, unlike airports which have to be built on the outskirts, thus when you factor in travel to and from the airport, HSR is likely the faster option. Third, trains can serve any number of stations in between a route, while aircrafts are restricted to their point of departure and arrival.

vesicles · Jun 6, 2016

TerraN_EmpirE said:
Of course Equation... Here is the rub. Since this is a Chinese system mostly likely to be implemented inside the PRC the regional carriers about to take the hit will be...Chinese not foreign carriers.
Of course the other Rub of this is that even as High speed as High speed Rail, Aircraft still have the speed edge.

If you only count the amount of time spent between destinations, then yes, planes are faster. But if you also take into account of time spent on driving to the airport, checking in, passing security, etc, high speed trains are actually faster.

Keep in mind that most of the high speed train stations are located close to city centers. In most cases, you don't need to drive to train stations. Take a cab, bus or shuttle. So no need to park your cars.

Most train stations have very convenient check in process. You get to the station and buy a ticket and get to the train. 15 minutes later, you are on the train.

Trains are also more frequent. If you miss one, the next one is only about 15-20 minutes away.

They are trying to build a high speed train between Dallas and Houston. I so look forward to that!

taxiya · Jun 6, 2016

ahojunk said:
Development on high speed rail. Looks like China is moving ahead of other competitors.

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China Daily, June 6, 2016

China is developing a next-generation bullet train that can run at 400 kilometers an hour and is suitable for cross-border services, a senior researcher with the nation's high-speed rail program said on Sunday.

View attachment 28231
A next-generation high-speed train is being tested in China. The train can run at 400 kilometers per hour and is suitable for cross-border services.[Photo/Xinhua]

"The train, to be developed in the 13th Five-Year Plan period (2016-20), will have wheels that can be adjusted to fit various gauges on other countries' tracks, compared with trains now that need to have their wheels changed before entering foreign systems," said Jia Limin, a professor at Beijing Jiaotong University and head of China's high-speed rail innovation program.

"Once the new bullet train is put into service, it will operate on China's rail network as well as on the Moscow-Kazan high-speed line in Russia, which is designed for 400 km/h trains," he added, referring to the 770-km link that connects Moscow and Kazan, a metropolis on the Volga River. The rail line is a joint venture between China and Russia.

According to an agreement by Chinese and Russian authorities, the Moscow-Kazan line is likely to be extended to Beijing, which will significantly reduce rail travel times between the two nation's capitals.

Wheels on trains now traveling between China and Russia have be changed before crossing the border because the gauges are different. The new bullet train will not require this procedure, saving time and money, Jia said.

He was speaking in Beijing on the sidelines of the 12th Five-Year Plan (2011-15) Technology and Innovation Achievements Exhibition.

Currently, high-speed trains in China run at speeds ranging from 250 to 300 km/h, although their maximum speed can reach about 350 km/h.

With the aim of exploring new concepts, Jia said China has developed and begun to test an ultrafast bullet train that is potentially able to travel at 600 km/h. The train has been made by CRRC Qingdao Sifang Co, a subsidiary of the country's largest train maker, China Railway Rolling Stock Corp, in Shandong province.

The ultrafast train is being used to trial cutting-edge technologies, advanced materials and to test operational limits, the professor said, adding that its development means China is now able to design and manufacture trains that can travel at least 500 km/h.

However, Liu Youmei, a bullet train expert and academic at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, said that under the current conditions, the maximum speed for high-speed railways cannot exceed 400 km/h because higher speeds will incur much higher operation costs.

He said the ultrafast train should be used only for demonstrating new concepts and technologies rather than commercial operation.

I wonder why Russia does not switch to the 1435mm "Standard" Guage when building the all new HSR lines. The only reason and probably a good reason is that the HSR and low speed lines are connected and can be used by low speed trains in special cases.

taxiya · Jun 6, 2016

solarz said:
Under a certain distance, HSR has definite advantages over flying.

That is the key.

I read somewhere that it is something around 500km.

Also, the distance between stops decided the different technological choices between European and Japanese designs. The Europeans choose an approach of high cruising speed but lower acceleration due to the long distance between their cities, while Japan choose the other way around. I didn't study much about China, but I'd guess China took either both or more closer to the Europeans due to the vast geographical area.

Equation · Jun 6, 2016

TerraN_EmpirE said:
Of course Equation... Here is the rub. Since this is a Chinese system mostly likely to be implemented inside the PRC the regional carriers about to take the hit will be...Chinese not foreign carriers.
Of course the other Rub of this is that even as High speed as High speed Rail, Aircraft still have the speed edge.

But train can carry more and less hassle at the security line. Which is more enjoyable trip to travel, airplane or train (regional wise)? And when other countries sees this they would want one too.

SamuraiBlue · Jun 7, 2016

Although 400Km/h conventional wheel on rail HSR is technologically possible it is most likely economically unfeasible due to the over all cost in maintenance of track and train as well as the over all energy requirement in energy consumption.
Various HSR nations had tested it and all basically reached the same conclusion.

antiterror13 · Jun 7, 2016

SamuraiBlue said:
Although 400Km/h conventional wheel on rail HSR is technologically possible it is most likely economically unfeasible due to the over all cost in maintenance of track and train as well as the over all energy requirement in energy consumption.
Various HSR nations had tested it and all basically reached the same conclusion.

you are absolutely right, and aso the safety margin would be significantly less

SamuraiBlue · Jun 7, 2016

antiterror13 said:
you are absolutely right, and aso the safety margin would be significantly less

I really doubt a mass transit manufacturer/operator would lower safety margin just to satisfy a speed up and place passengers in harm's way, or is that how it's done in mainland china?

FYI JR Group's safety margin has always been 27% of calculated top speed as safety margin for commercial top speed and each new model would be tested calculated top speed so to be certify commercial top speed.

siegecrossbow · Jun 7, 2016

vesicles said:
If you only count the amount of time spent between destinations, then yes, planes are faster. But if you also take into account of time spent on driving to the airport, checking in, passing security, etc, high speed trains are actually faster.

Keep in mind that most of the high speed train stations are located close to city centers. In most cases, you don't need to drive to train stations. Take a cab, bus or shuttle. So no need to park your cars.

Most train stations have very convenient check in process. You get to the station and buy a ticket and get to the train. 15 minutes later, you are on the train.

Trains are also more frequent. If you miss one, the next one is only about 15-20 minutes away.

They are trying to build a high speed train between Dallas and Houston. I so look forward to that!

Probably should do one between Austin and San Antonio as a trial run.

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