News on China's scientific and technological development.

latenlazy

Brigadier
What are you talking about? The issue is quality here. GTP-4 already talks like a literature professor and can provide sources, a vast step up from a braindead youtuber script who has trouble with basic english.
Oh yeah because talking like a literature professor is how Trump got such a large following :rolleyes:

(And FTR I’m friends with actual writers and they’re not really impressed with its prose)


What an underestimation of the potential uses.
If you say so. I’ll let you imagine what I seem to be missing. Maybe you should do a startup.
??? Better than pretending that everything is fine. It's not like some people here don't work in A.I sectors or related industries that can give some feedback. Otherwise, what the point of this entire forum?
Panic attacks give people heart attacks. Just sayin’

You probably don’t want to use the people here as cover for your claims since uh, everyone here who codes so far has been dunking on you. Maybe we know a bit of what we’re talking about eh?;)

Moving the goalposts? You were the one that said that A.I can't form human relationships. And this is for manipulating people. That's the whole point. One day your A.I GF is just sex-texting you, then one day she's asking you to buy more Apple products, than she's dropping hints that all chinese products are spywares, that you should work out more, that you should join the army etc etc. Imagine facebook, reddit discord, but with an army of bots subtly just dropping subliminal messages everywhere, and you can't tell if they're real or bots. Hell, with A.I text to voice, an A.I can legit just talk to you in a real human's voice.
An AI spitting text back at you is not a human relationship unless you’re an extremely lonely desperate person with sociability problems in normal society. That’s not someone making friends with an AI. That’s someone who needs a psychiatrist and maybe an intervention.

And even if the scenario you just laid out was plausible that sounds more like a recipe for societal level brain rot and social destruction than for human economic or social progress.
So you really think that LLMs are useless or the array of media generation models are useless? Fine. Time will prove me right in the end. Let's see GTP-4 and other media generation model change the digital landscape while China is once again left in the dust.
You sound like a crypto bro.

Probably because they're not as useful?

One reason is that it exposes just shortsighted Chinese A.I sector is. This is the most important technology in a century and they choose to flip their shit over ChatGTP? Why not GTP-2? Or GTP-3? Or PaLM? I was flipping my shit over GTP-3 when it came out 2 years ago, but the chinese A.I sector didn't raise nearly as much fuss as they did over ChatGTP. Funny how the only LLM to gain mainstream attention was the only LLM that finally kicked the Chinese A.I sector into high gear. It's doesn't bode well when your top A.I researchers seem to be blind to the progress in their field of study and has to rely on MSM to decide what projects to invest in.
Maybe you should be asking why other people aren’t more impressed. Lots of people get impressed by weight loss ads and never lose weight.
 
Last edited:

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
FWIW, I work in the business services sector, and I've noticed ChatGPT has really streamlined some of my colleagues' work and made them much more efficient (Nowhere near taking my job though :D). It's going to see a LOT of use in services but I'm not to sure about everywhere else. I think ChatGPT gets a lot of attention because it's consumer-facing with obvious applications. It also definitely gets a lot of training it because of how far-reaching English is.
So this tells me two things, those colleagues were slacking and had shit level typing speed ;)

In my sector of software development i have come to some conclusion after talking with some people that are really pro chatgpt and copilot. For the next decade we developers will write a shit load of AI assisted code then after a decade we will suddenly wake up and say wtf just happened why do we have this massive ass pile of bullshit code?

Which reminds me of the time when the west outsourced a lot of coding jobs to the lowest bidder two decade ago. People kind of laughed at me when i said i would do a CS study back then because this work will go to India. Well when i was ready to enter the job market there was a big pile of bullshit code that needed to be untangled and cleaned up. Now 9 years later i still see massive piles of bullshit code.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
And yet people still can't give me a good reason.
I've given you a good reason since my first post in response. Because it's cheaper and more efficient to follow closely than to lead and there's no rush to lead so it's wise to conserve until overabundance causes efficiency to no longer be important.
Again, this is simple logic here. Let me meme it for you, why I'm so worried.
Again, it's simple logic that if you can't make these things, you don't talk trash about the people who do. I don't care why you're freaking out and neither does anyone else.
GTP-2, GTP 3, PaLM, LaMDA, flamingo, openAI codex, Megatron, Github copilot: I sleep

ChatGTP: Real shit, entire A.I sector on fire within a month, dozens of ChatGTP clones coming right up, dozens of companies and startups created just to create LLMs, tens of thousands of business are looking to interagte LLMs into their products and business models

It's not even an issue of why China couldn't come up with their own LLM in the first place, it's that they couldn't even recognize the potential of LLM until it was so mainstream that it couldn't be ignored. This are supposed to be A.I researchers on the forefront. There's clearly something very wrong going in the industry if they could ignore PaLM or flamingo, two very impressive LLM that were on my radar when they came out even though I don't work in the A.I sector. PaLM was impressive in the way it could understand meta-reasoning behind jokes and memes, probably the closest to ChatGTP before ChatGTP came out.

I though that China was already making great progress on the LLM front since GTP-3 rocked the boat and with every development of google/deepmind/facebook's new LLM, but I just never heard about it. But it turns out that most of the major A.I players just didn't care?

It's not like they're doing well on other A.I fronts.

Sure LLM may not lead to AGI. But given their failure to even do recognize the potential of LLM, what hope do they have of actually innovating or even recognizing whatever revolutionary new A.I model that comes out of America before it's too late. Unless something changes, China is going to lose the A.I race for sure. And that's the most important technology race ever.


I would love it if China can actually can innovate instead of outright saying that they need to copy ChatGTP, as have many chinese A.I companies have.
TLDR. Just you complaining why people way smarter than you haven't accomplished even more by overtaking the US even faster.
And A.I was supposed to be the field where China and America were neck and neck. After all, the A.I winter stalled a lot of progress on this field. Deep learning was a pretty new development. It's a pretty even playing field I thought.
LOL AI's not just some chat program you're freaking out about and even then, a few months apart is neck and neck.
I'm just saying how it is. I knew from 2020, that GTP-3 and it's successors were going to be a BIG deal. Chinese A.I sector didn't get the memo until ChatGTP in 2022. Excuse it however you want.
1. I don't see any posts from you in 2020.
2. How do you know who got what memo? Knowing something is coming isn't the same thing as getting ahead of it. There's no reason that China needs to invest massive resources to debut a chat program before the US.
Probably because I don't have billions of dollars, an team of researchers and my own supercomputing center.
Ahahaha, excuses. You're not smart enough to work as an engineer for a top tech firm so you criticize them like an insect biting at a lion's toenails. China's tech giants weren't born with billions of dollars either. Now, they got the money and you got the freak outs LOL. Stop making excuses for your own failures and demanding perfection from others.
The question is, why didn't those who did, start research back in 2020 when GTP-3 was making waves, instead of waiting until 2022 until ChatGTP exploded onto the scene?
No need to invest huge amounts in a race for a few months when you can let others do the heavy lifting and come up with something similar right after. You seem to be obsessed with who's first like the Soviets were obsessed with who have the biggest factories/airplanes/electricity plants/etc... but you don't think about what you need and how to most efficiently get it.
When dealing with AGI, a few months can catapult you a century ahead or behind.
Uh no. A month is a month and a century is a century. Unless you're in a wormhole, time does not distort. Unlike you, actually smart people (or even average people) know that. If someone invents an AI program and you come up with something similar in 5 months, you're behind 5 months, not a few years, or a century or any other nutjob freakout time.
Nukes are the same.
Only if they land on you can they drop you a century behind. Not the same thing as AI.
Or someone gets AGI first, it upgrades itself over and over in a few days/weeks/months, becoming a ASI and proceeds to do whatever it wants? Not something you want your competitor to get first.
It upgrades itself and starts evolving until it takes over and does whatever it wants? And in this fantasy of yours, are there machine tentacles that interrogate the young female captains of the last remaining human rebels? LOL In the real world, whatever lead the US has in tech, China can overtake. First means nothing. Take your medication and stop watching Matrix reruns.
Soft power is very real. Just look at us, typing in English, giving more data for the whatever new AI OpenA.I is doing to dote out next.
That's not soft power. We're speaking in English talking about how China can overtake the US. If soft power existed, that would be a perfect example of its failure.
 
Last edited:

latenlazy

Brigadier
So this tells me two things, those colleagues were slacking and had shit level typing speed ;)

In my sector of software development i have come to some conclusion after talking with some people that are really pro chatgpt and copilot. For the next decade we developers will write a shit load of AI assisted code then after a decade we will suddenly wake up and say wtf just happened why do we have this massive ass pile of bullshit code?

Which reminds me of the time when the west outsourced a lot of coding jobs to the lowest bidder two decade ago. People kind of laughed at me when i said i would do a CS study back then because this work will go to India. Well when i was ready to enter the job market there was a big pile of bullshit code that needed to be untangled and cleaned up. Now 9 years later i still see massive piles of bullshit code.
Oh man, I didn’t even get as far as thinking about refactoring AI code after a tech debt code review.
 

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
Soft power is fake and useless. The people who learn Japanese are losers in their culture and learn it to creep Japanese people out and pretend they live in cartoons. The people who learn Chinese do so for big business.

Lol,even Your idol Xi Jin Ping emphasize the importance of soft power. Don't believe me?Check this out

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
LLMs don't need intelligence to revolutionise most businesses. They just have to be good-enough to seemingly mimick human behaviour.

Btw this revolution is mostly going to be (or start with) for services, not hard industry. This is why this technology is seen so disruptive in the US/West because they are service-based economies. In fact, that the US has taken the lead on this is not strange at all, as the US is service-oriented and China is manufacturing-oriented so its natural that US private companies have paid more attention to LLMs.

I think China's position in this tech race is okayish. While the US has taken the lead, research and advancements on this field are so fast (literally every week..), that the first mover advantage isn't as important here as in other technologies.

What's more important than who is leading the tech race, is who is going to lead the widespread usage race of this tech on their economies

As for AGI, given recent advancements, I think there is a somewhat clear pathway towards this with scaling up LLMs with multimodal functions (combine AI text with AI image, AI audio etc) and more powerful hardware. In my view the biggest constrain now is scalability, not AI research per se (still need to find a way so that multimodal and general AI can be better than specialised-trained AI for one task though). That's probably one of the reasons the US is blocking advanced Nvidia/AMD products from being sold to China


Final note: GPT-4 and other LLMs aren't a fad. It signals that a massive revolution is on the horizon for businesses which specialise in services. Hard industry will surely follow, but it would take a (much) longer time for sure

It's not even an issue of why China couldn't come up with their own LLM in the first place, it's that they couldn't even recognize the potential of LLM until it was so mainstream that it couldn't be ignored
Someone else had said something similar a few months ago, and I responded to him with something like "US and China are in different development stages". That same response applies to your argument today
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Lol,even Your idol Xi Jin Ping emphasize the importance of soft power. Don't believe me?Check this out

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Quote it on the soft power thread and let's go. Better yet, read through all I wrote there before you tell me why you disagree. You're not the first person to point that out and I answer the same way: he either pushed soft power to encourage Chinese people to behave better and to make himself appear less aggressive or he's wrong. Just because I support him doesn't mean I mindlessly agree with everything he says but the fact is that Xi is pursuing hard power at a maddening pace while sometimes giving a nod to "soft power" and that indicates to me that he knows that all power depends on hard power but "soft power" is simply a kinder way of saying coercion by implied threat AKA nonviolent extension of hard power.
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Oh man, I didn’t even get as far as thinking about refactoring AI code after a tech debt code review.
Lets just say in my almost decade old career i have seen some massive piles of bullshit code.

Lol,even Your idol Xi Jin Ping emphasize the importance of soft power. Don't believe me?Check this out

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Well theres a big difference between twerking videos on tiktok and China using its huge economics reserves and market size to mold complete regions on this planet. I think it was pre 2018 that economic power still fell in the soft power category but then US think tank started using a new term Sharp power for economic coercion.
 
Top