News on China's scientific and technological development.

Violet Oboe said:

PRC's emerging network of high speed railways is a nice example of Chinese effective pragmatism. Beijing decided in 2001 to buy licensed technology from Germany, Japan, France, Italy and Canada instead of developing everything from scratch in China (indigenous projects were consequently canceled).

All critics harping on the fact that CRH2 and CRH3 are just ´copies´ of ICE/Velaro (Germany) and Shinkansen E2 (Japan) miss the point since China has actually made a bargain deal: Acquiring the best available technology and having the largest (13000 km!) and most modern high speed network established in the shortest possible timeframe (2012-13).

In contrast Britain will begin planning in 2010, building in 2017 and the trains will run hopefully on only one track between London and Manchester in 2025..., the fastest ´snail train´ ever built, I presume!

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Maybe, but with all our UK Olympic Champions, we can insure that a person with a Red Flag and Whistle remains out in front all the time

China's policy for high technology acquisition has always been first buy them off the shelf, then operate and study them, after that improve and innovate, and finally having their own R & D design.

China was opearing steam engine locomotive 20 years ago when rest of the world was mostly on diesel and electric. The new train called "He Xue" or roughly translated as "Concorde" is not off the shelf product from Japan or Europe, it is an improved and innovated product.

Originally Posted by Violet Oboe View Post
PRC's emerging network of high speed railways is a nice example of Chinese effective pragmatism.


Im beginining to wonder whether they are nothing more than a waste of money,especially when they will not pay for themselves.The current showpiece being constructed, the Shanghai to Peking fast rail is estimated at $221 billion remmenbi.

"The average urban Chinese worker made 28,898 renminbi last year, a tenth of the $39,653 average wage in the United States, according data from the U.S. and Chinese governments.Most Chinese rail travelers will not pay the premium to ride on the fast trains, Zhao Jian, a professor of economics at Beijing Jiaotong University, said in a September interview on Chinese television.A second-class one-way ticket for the half-hour Beijing-Tianjin trip costs 58 renminbi, about three-quarters of the workers' average daily pay. A so-called hard-seat ticket on a slower train, which covers the distance in two hours, sells for 11 renminbi.----"

P.S> But then again its probably better than flying

In each of the "Golden week" holidays in China, all inter-province route transports (rail, air and couch) are filled to the brink, tens of millions of people would go through the heavily jammed railway stations and airports. There are simply not enough seats and millions have to abstain from going home.

Guanzhou-Wuhan is one of the most heavy passenger load route. Guandong province has tens of millions of immigrant workers of all levels, from factory workers to top managers.

The targeted passengers would be tourist, business travellers and Chinese middle to higher income people who would prefer a faster and comfortable ride, also to avoid pick pockets and thieves commonly found in slow trains. It is also an alternative mode of transport for people who prefer not to fly. The total fare is probably not much different from travel by air if airport taxi charges are added, and travel time including time for airport check in and disembark is more or less the same.

I have many office friends and factory supervisors who would pay few hundred RMB taking bus back home during Chinese new years since they only go home once a year or two. I do agree that general factory workers will not pay these high prices.

The peak seasons are Chinese New Year, May 1st Labour Day, October 1th National Day. There are also other traditional holidays.

bladerunner said:

Originally Posted by Violet Oboe View Post
PRC's emerging network of high speed railways is a nice example of Chinese effective pragmatism.


Im beginining to wonder whether they are nothing more than a waste of money,especially when they will not pay for themselves.The current showpiece being constructed, the Shanghai to Peking fast rail is estimated at $221 billion remmenbi.

"The average urban Chinese worker made 28,898 renminbi last year, a tenth of the $39,653 average wage in the United States, according data from the U.S. and Chinese governments.Most Chinese rail travelers will not pay the premium to ride on the fast trains, Zhao Jian, a professor of economics at Beijing Jiaotong University, said in a September interview on Chinese television.A second-class one-way ticket for the half-hour Beijing-Tianjin trip costs 58 renminbi, about three-quarters of the workers' average daily pay. A so-called hard-seat ticket on a slower train, which covers the distance in two hours, sells for 11 renminbi.----"

P.S> But then again its probably better than flying

Click to expand...

Every peice of new technology comes out expensive at first. Think of how expensive the first gen ipod was, $700. what about HDTV, a mere 40' plasma HDTV (not even a true HD) costed ~ $10,000 about 10 years ago. And blue-ray came out at about ~1000. How many American could afford a $10,000 HDTV? I would doubt many would... As the technology matures and more people use the technology, the price will go down.

Also, the train ticket may be expensive today, but better communication will enhance economic growth, which will make everyone's income higher, much higher. 5-10 years later, everyone will not think twice about taking the train...

The impact of the french TGV network on domestic air traffic in France was considerable and probably airlines serving the link Guangzhou - Wuhan will suffer. Only healthy competition is at least good news for the consumer and in a couple of years even ordinary people will travel in under three hours a 1000 km.

Anybody been on the Maglev in Shanghai? What does it feel like? One thing I will definitely do when and if I go to shanghai would be to take the Maglev and enjoy 280 MPH

I took the MAGLEV train from Longyang station to Shanghai Pudong airport last June, the ride is just a bit shaky than normal Hong Kong electric train due to its high speed. However I overheard a lady from US saying the ride was very smooth, so it actually depends on your previous experience on train ride. And it is very quiet compare with other trains.

I paid 40 yuan for the 30KM ride which took about 8 minutes. There is a digital speed indicator at the top of cabin just below the door.

What actually amazed me was the time taken, 8 minutes to airport is fantastic.

Also, just few feets away next to Longyang MAGLEV station is an under-ground train station which conviniently take you to other parts of the city.

High speed rail

Rail travel is more efficient than road travel, and high speed rail is much more efficient than air travel, in terms of energy consumption. Same thing goes for mass urban transit (light rail). So high speed rail in fact IS MEANT to compete with civil aviation. It is no coincidence that the leaders in high speed rail up to know (Japan and France) are also leaders in the application of nuclear energy.

Moreover, high speed rail runs on electricity, and most other railway lines in China are being converted from diesel to electric as well. Since a larger part of the newer electric generating units in China will be nuclear or wind or hydropower, you are effectively cutting down on fossil fuels.

In the short run, the airlines will cry, but I think the government calculates that over the longer run there is enough of a market for both. This is important for China's passenger airplane ambitions, because even if the airlines hurt for a few years, by 2016 they should be doing OK again.

i am not counting on the highspeed rail to make money right now, its cost-effectiveness is not good enough. China developed this technology simply because it has a huge market potential. the highspeed rail does overlap with the function of airline in some aspects on the domestic market, but it also occupies a niche of itself. it holds the advantage of a train which is that it can pick up and drop passengers along the way. i dont think an airplane would WANT to drop any of its passengers before the final destination. so its benefits covers a lot of places that are simply not big enough or rich enough to have airports. its advantages over conventional railroad has been discussed.