New Type98/99 MBT thread

[valapak]

You have to take into account the practicality of such a weapon system. The higher caliber you go the heaver and bigger the MBT is going to be. At some point it passes common sense and will become more of a liability. what's the point of having a super tank if it can't cross bridges, has limited range, too heavy for transport planes etc?

Also you have weapon system which target the top of tanks nowadays. If a country is wealthy and well armed enough to produce such a tank they might be better off producing even more effective top down penetrators or missiles.

Also before you ask about existing 155mm....a SP 155mm howitzer makes a lot of sacrifice for that big gun but they were not designed for direct fire. Put them in a direct firefight with modern MBTs and they will most certainly be all destroyed.

Yes, you cant cross bridges or fit into any plane, but I only say something about type 99KM's job. Maybe these tanks will be used to protect military bases, or something like that. I nothing say about it futility

But the 155mm gun with its next gen kinetic rounds will has more efficiency against armour.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Yes, you cant cross bridges or fit into any plane, but I only say something about type 99KM's job. Maybe these tanks will be used to protect military bases, or something like that. I nothing say about it futility

But the 155mm gun with its next gen kinetic rounds will has more efficiency against armour.

first, Fixed fortifications are monuments to tactical stupidity. "Defending our bases" is not a tanks job. A tank is mechanized cavalry. The hull with its tracks are a armored horse the turret and its cannon a armored rider and carbine. If it can't cross bridges its useless if it can't move to fight the enemy its useless. Take a look again at that part of Asia. To the east the sea. The PLAN would have to be a sinking burning wreck for a enemy to cross that. To the south the jungle. Burma has dated tanks and no chance of invasion its terrain would also stop most tanks in mud wallows. To the north the step open territory for tank hunting aircraft rough terrain for a vehicle.
to the west the Hindu Kush a sheer rock wall from Iran to Siberia that stops tanks cold. So why would the PLA who dominates the one pocket of good tank country need a super slow super heavyweight?

there is still no proof that a 155mm is the tank gun to dominate. In point of fact most of the testing of such heavy guns have been abandoned. Delfts list was incomplete, as sprinkled in were tests of cannons like the American 155mm, the Russian 130mm and the last great ones the Russian 152mm T95 program and the Germans 140mm both were scrapped because of the price vs performance. Really I don't think the PLA would find any different.
The next big tank gun would need some other methods of firing. So where does that leave the 99KM? Well no where. Wikipedia took down its entry about it. Most of the references are gone and all source material leads back to a Russian magazine. Russian magazines have about as reliable information at times as Mad magazine. They have been pushing for PLAAF Su35 and Tu22m buys for decades yet... Nothing. So right now the 99KM sits next to the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. Myth.

 

[Lezt]

May I also add,

Large caliber ammunition, would also take up more space and require larger mechanism to move it; the tank would be much larger to store and handle sufficient number of rounds for a tank to perform its function.

 

[AssassinsMace]

More A2.

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[valapak]

first, Fixed fortifications are monuments to tactical stupidity. "Defending our bases" is not a tanks job. A tank is mechanized cavalry. The hull with its tracks are a armored horse the turret and its cannon a armored rider and carbine. If it can't cross bridges its useless if it can't move to fight the enemy its useless. Take a look again at that part of Asia. To the east the sea. The PLAN would have to be a sinking burning wreck for a enemy to cross that. To the south the jungle. Burma has dated tanks and no chance of invasion its terrain would also stop most tanks in mud wallows. To the north the step open territory for tank hunting aircraft rough terrain for a vehicle.
to the west the Hindu Kush a sheer rock wall from Iran to Siberia that stops tanks cold. So why would the PLA who dominates the one pocket of good tank country need a super slow super heavyweight?

there is still no proof that a 155mm is the tank gun to dominate. In point of fact most of the testing of such heavy guns have been abandoned. Delfts list was incomplete, as sprinkled in were tests of cannons like the American 155mm, the Russian 130mm and the last great ones the Russian 152mm T95 program and the Germans 140mm both were scrapped because of the price vs performance. Really I don't think the PLA would find any different.
The next big tank gun would need some other methods of firing. So where does that leave the 99KM? Well no where. Wikipedia took down its entry about it. Most of the references are gone and all source material leads back to a Russian magazine. Russian magazines have about as reliable information at times as Mad magazine. They have been pushing for PLAAF Su35 and Tu22m buys for decades yet... Nothing. So right now the 99KM sits next to the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. Myth.

Yes, but for example the 140mm Rheinmetall Gun project was canceled because NOW there is no enemy, which cant defeat with the L/44 / L/55 Rheinmetall Gun.

AssasinsMace Is the tank above the A2 Light? It looks very small for me?!

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Sorry Val but there is no evidence of that tank or gun system. We can debate the hypothetical but without photos or video its a myth. Now could such a gun have uses? Yes but the price vs performance doesn't justify it not yet anyway and as to risk ZTZ99 series is unlikely to face active tank on tank for sometime.

 

[Inst]

If you read Unrestricted Warfare, the Chinese have a great belief in the helicopter as an anti-tank weapon.

Besides that, I played a game called "Stratis Imperia" once upon a time with people from a couple of internet communities. It was a World War II simulator, and we decided to start with China's position. One big thing we discovered was that airpower is essential for a country in China's location, since China is a huge country with both a maritime front and significant land borders. Developing either a large land force or large naval force was inferior to having and deploying a large air force, because a powerful air force had the ability to provide decisive intervention for both land-based and naval engagements.

In that sense, the WZ-10 is more promising as a platform for the PLAGF than the ZTZ-99. With the proper equipment and upgrades, it's useful both on land and sea.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Well that depends on what kind of war and where you are fighting. The PLA has Tanks no doubt and for there needs at the moment there tanks look good. The Z10 is a bit of a lightweight but it also looks good. For the most likely conflicts of China the highest probably seem to be amphibious assault. And in that model Z10 I would agree is the more useful, in that area Type 99 series MBT would be more dead weight then fighting assets. the PLA lacks much of the Amphibious landing options needed to get type 99 to the front lines.
in its place Airborne and amphibious tanks backed by Z10s would be the best answer for the mission and they could face down most of the tanks in the region. Except the Japanese, Korean, US or Singapore. Who have modern MBTs but again would be highly unlikely encounters as those nations also have limited amounts of Amphibious landing options for full MBTS. Even the US, so unless the PLA attempt a invasion of Japan or South Korea or Singapore (any of which very very unlikely scenarios') the PLA's tank force is King of the Gobi and not likely to be seeing much else.

 

[Inst]

Well, I mean, the only real competitor for the PLAGF is the Russian armed forces, and once they upgrade to Armata they will have better tanks than their Chinese equivalents. But going on an arms race with the Russians, when both countries are threatened by the West, is worse than foolhardiness.

And while the WZ-10's combat capability against the latest Western tanks is doubtful, as a helicopter, it is relatively easy to upgrade its missile. Just pack a bigger warhead on a heavier missile, add maneuvering thrusters for top attack, and presto, you have a fairly good chance at achieving at least a mission kill on impact.

 

[Skywatcher]

Well, I mean, the only real competitor for the PLAGF is the Russian armed forces, and once they upgrade to Armata they will have better tanks than their Chinese equivalents. But going on an arms race with the Russians, when both countries are threatened by the West, is worse than foolhardiness.

And while the WZ-10's combat capability against the latest Western tanks is doubtful, as a helicopter, it is relatively easy to upgrade its missile. Just pack a bigger warhead on a heavier missile, add maneuvering thrusters for top attack, and presto, you have a fairly good chance at achieving at least a mission kill on impact.

The Armata is not going to have a good time in urban combat, if the reports of it using an unmanned turret is true.