New J-10 thread II

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Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
I previously posted data on the J-10's alleged features, but after watching that video of the J-10 taking off and IMMEDIATELY going for a climb, I think my data is wrong, but then I am no aerospace engineer, just a fan of military stuff. That fast climbing J-10 may show that the J-10 has a weight-to-thrust ratio that is greater than previously expected, or the J-10 in that video carried minimal internal fuel to perform that routine, or the J-10 in the video was an early J-10 with minimal weight, or the J-10 in the video was a modified version with decreased weight and increased engine power.

This is my best guess of the J-10's features (don't slam me if I seem way off):

Empty Weight: 14,000-lb to 18,000-lb
(The J-10 may be using lots of advanced materials from advanced metal alloys and nonmetallic composites to decrease its radar signature, heat signature, and weight plus increase its durability.)

Wing Area: 350 sq-ft to 500 sq-ft

Maximum Military Thrust (Russian Engine vs Chinese Engine): 17,860-lb vs 16,500-lb
Maximum Afterburner Thrust (RE vs CE): 27,557-lb vs 24,000 lb
Engine's Highest Thrust-to-Weight Ratio (RE vs CE): 7.5:1 vs 9:1


TPHuang, you seem to be the most knowledgeable here about the J-10. Can you give us what you think are the J-10's features? How would you compare the J-10's WS10A engine to the Super Hornet's General Electric F414?


If I can't use blue font, then I offer precocious apologies to the moderators.
 
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Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
On Kursed's supplied video, I didn't even see J-10 use its afterburner throughout the impressive takeoff and climb (Am I right about this?)! The J-10 literally went from accelerating on the tarmac to a very brief 45-degree climb and then very quickly into a 75-degree to 90-degree climb. This looks like the climb was mostly the engine power and only small amounts of wing lift.

If the J-10 has a max mil thrust of 16,500 lb to no more than 25,000 lb, then the J-10 plus small amounts of fuel (just enough internal fuel for the air show) must weight below 16,500 lb to 25,000 lb. I know this range is huge, but no one seems to be able to give a good estimate here. I wonder if the J-10 in the video is the standard J-10 or some J-10 with decreased weight.
 
crobato

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Its the production J-10. Adding that IFR adds to the weight a little but as the production model this is exactly the way the plane as they are with operational units. In fact, this plane is from an operational unit, the 44th Division, no. 55 and no. 65 respectively.

The plane should have minimal fuel, but enough fuel to do 10 minutes of serious aerobatics, so that's not exactly what you would running near empty either.

As far as it looks it does not appear to be using an afterburner as we have seen the afterburners go off on Su-27s taking off and they produce a purple plume from the back.

Once the angle goes high, the wings don't produce the lift and the plane has to climb by engine power alone.

Like with Feng, I have been arguing far too long that the J-10 is lighter than what it should and better power to weight ratio than the ridiculous 9750kg empty weight Hui Tong placed on his otherwise excellent web site.
 
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Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Vertical Take Offs

J-10 (seems to use only military thrust)
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Eurofighter Typhoon (uses afterburner thrust)
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F-16 (uses afterburner thrust)
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F-15 (uses afterburner thrust)
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F-22 (I can't tell if it used military thrust or afterburner thrust)
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S

Scratch

Captain
Now it becomes funny, accusing other aircraft of cheating because they perform a different maneouver. This Raptor in the vids performs a low fly-bye immediatly after take-off before going vertical. Wich, by gaining a much higher energy state, is probably the reason for going up vertical for 20 seconds, and not "only" 7 like the J-10. While it is an impressive climb-out, and indeed it seems without afterburner, one cannot claim the J-10 to outclimb, -perfrom the rest of the world by a few youtube vids.
Should the J-10 be in the same wight class as later F-16 models, I would assume with 10 min display fuel + a little reserve, it weighs 10- tonnes. The AL-31F offers already dry thrust of 8,15t. If the energy state (speed) at T/O was already high enough, I could imagine a T:W ratio of 0.85 to already be enough to go through that maneuver. Still, timewise the T/O run doesn't seem to be shorter than that of other fighters.

For an aviation fan, nice to look at.
 
FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Captain
Wich, by gaining a much higher energy state, is probably the reason for going up vertical for 20 seconds, and not "only" 7 like the J-10.
Click to expand...

You are assuming that seven seconds was the maximum amount of time the J-10.

But one interesting thing to note is that the given specs for the AL-31F is only about 500lbs greater than that of the F110-GE-100.
 
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Engineer

Engineer

Major
Scratch said:
...because they perform a different maneouver.
Click to expand...
Which is cheating. If the J-10 does the same thing I would accuse it of cheating as well. There is nothing 'vertical' about that sort of take off.

That being said, I would agree it is an impressive climb out.
 
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